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Teach/R
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Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2012 18:57 |
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Just spent about 6 or so hours reading and digesting the information on the site. I have a grasp of the vitamin D involvement in immuno-supression, but had a continuing question as to the involvement of Folic Acid and if Folates also are problematic, and how they fit into this circle of (bacterial) life?
Secondly; Vitamin A is also a hormone(ish) supplement and I was curious as to if it also had a similar function somewhere.
Thirdly; Are there any other "food" supplements that have hormonal effects?
I just removed all of the D supplements from my daily regimen, cut the cod liver in half and will discontinue an expensive (LEF.org) multi-vitamin as it has 4,000 IU of D.
I have been battling FM, intractably high blood sugar and "fog" for over 20 years. I keep the symptoms in check and am functional, but have spent a fortune on following all the rabbit trails promising cures. I just hope that this is not just another myopic, one note band, but is truly an examination of the complete human interface with our symbiotes.
Thanks in advance for your considered reply;
John Wood
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Sallie Q
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Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2012 22:09 |
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good morning John
I am glad you found us
while you wait for a more technical reply from another volunteer I'll offer my overview.
Unless there is a science based reason, (which a doctor would test for in a particular patient) then IMHO taking any vitamin is a counterproductive waste of money, but vitamin D in quantities larger than the human body was evolved to handle is the real killer.
If someone is not getting enough vitamins in their food they need to change their eating patterns, no ifs no buts.
Usually the obvious foods to add are the leafy greens, which are the ones you are also interested in for folates.
When for personal and historical reasons you do not have enough of a particular mineral in your body, you may need a mineral supplement.
Once you have the minerals, your body gets enough vitamins from real food to do anything it needs to do and a lot of things the pharmaceutical industry has reason to convince you that it "can't do".
Your doctor should know to check some minerals in your blood tests.
Once your minerals are in correct balance, then using sea salt instead of sodium chloride (common salt) should be enough.
While on the Marshall Protocol, you need particularly to check potassium, it could creep up, maybe, maybe not. Another thing, you may experience light sensitivity and need eye protection.
Keep reading, always something new to learn here 
Sallie Q
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index to MPKB | MP Sep'08 depression'65, breast cancer'90, Sjogrens| sx CFS, low adrenal,ADD,migraine,BCC; mild stroke, RA| MP conferences
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Teach/R
Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 17th, 2012 22:31 |
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I do not entirely agree with you on supplementation issues as some of us have absorption issues and hypochloridia and have a proven need for some supplementation.
Also; continuous farming, and particularly chemically enhanced farming has denuded the soil of many trace elements our systems need to function properly. I prefer to know that I have enough minerals available to the system even if it results in "rich pee"
I have been battling FM symptoms for many years and find that good sleep (hard to attain) proper, clean nutrition and a lot of KCl seem to keep the dragon at bay. What I see here is a protocol that might be the sword to slay the dragon. I just want to know if the nutritional views of the folks at Dr Marshall's are wholistic in nurture view and not entirely focused on a very narrow chemical reaction.
The more I know the better able I am to take possession of my body and its care away from the microbes.
Thanks again;
John
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Sallie Q
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2012 02:11 |
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I have absolutely nothing against supplementing minerals
however, I can not emphasize enough that supplementing vitamins has hazards most people know nothing of
John, you and I have something in common
absorption issues
mine (or at any rate the one I now know of thanks to my lovely, immune orientated, multiply trained doctor) is magnesium
You are keen, and independent minded, love it, anyone who "entirely agree"s with anyone else is a bit of a worry
incidentally where you from? It does help with some queries to put your location in your profile, and may also attract supportive attention from compatriots.
I notice some of the recent inquiry is from my homeland, Australia and we have the best read farmers in the world [my NZ born Dad was one, so perhaps I am prejudicial at this point]
Farming here when following all European practice was a disaster, and we have turned our farming practice around in record time for any culture
Clean nutrition is a great start. Some here have to change from junk food as well as changing from steroid use. I am so lucky I was neither and the payoff is really amazing progress into stage 5 (immune system recovery)
Your keen mind, however, is your best tool. I must now mention that sleep, also, is a variable on the MP journey and if you do start, you will have many months of good sleep, but at unpredictable times you may have intensified lack of sleep, I did. I guess when the relevant part of my brain was under repair .
There is a sense in which the Protocol is holistic to the max.
That is our problem with doctors who are trained to look at single body parts, single microbe triggers for infective problems, the whole 20th century catastrophe now entrenched as are so many problems by $$ and special interest groups
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index to MPKB | MP Sep'08 depression'65, breast cancer'90, Sjogrens| sx CFS, low adrenal,ADD,migraine,BCC; mild stroke, RA| MP conferences
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Mar 19th, 2012 23:31 |
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My own history with LEF goes back to when they produced a small format news letter that was just a folded up piece of paper. I have seen them go from a group that was really interested in life extention, to nothing more than a premium vitamin house, with a glitzy magazine.
I stopped all vitamins when I started the MP, the same expensive ones you took, plus lots more. My impression is that a healthy body just doesn't need all those supplements. My body could hardly be called healthy when I started the MP, but I haven't ever seen any problem stopping the vitamins, and have seen dozens of things clear up on the MP. See the link in my signature line.
LEF talks about hundreds of things (all of which they sell) that are in some way helpful to the body. But my observations are,
1) You could never manage to physically take all those things,
2) If you tried, you'd go broke,
3) And their value isn't additive.
In all probability, each one suppreses the immune system a little, and gives the effect of reducing the collateral damage done by an aggressive immune system trying to remove the systemic infection of bacteria and other microbiota. Not something that is very useful in the end. My opinion is that LEF will be in denial for decades to come - until their profits start to drop. So, I dropped my membership, and don't even read their e-news any more. We have better news gatherers here on the Study Site discussion forums.
By the way, I used fish oil and then perilla oil (omega 3s) to reduce the inflammation in the pads of my back and make my life livable for a dozen years pre-MP. When I started the MP, the olmesartan was a direct replacement for the omegsa 3 oils. Hopefully, that will work for your cod liver oil.
Some bacteria are dependent on folate, so you will kill them more easily if you don't supplement and avoid bread/flour with folate. But the same can be said about bacteria that are dependent on sugar in the blood stream, so low carb is good, but not mandatory. I personally think low carb is very important, but then I've had a lot of blood sugar problems.
You may find that protecting your eyes will help with the brain fog. I wish I'd known that a long time ago. I might not have been in such a hurry to retire.
This protocol is the real thing. I've been in the healthfood/alterantive med movement most of my life, and nothing I've ever done compares to this protocol.
Welcome to our forums, Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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Teach/R
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Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2012 00:05 |
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Yeah, I tend to cherry pick LEF's research and synthesize the data with other studies I have done. Not an end all be all for sure. But then again, none are the final word. Just parts of a gigantic puzzle!
Appreciate the folate info. Any info on A as a hormone.
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2012 00:44 |
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| None that I have seen in the nearly 4 years I have been reading on these MP sites. Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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Joyful
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Posted: Fri Mar 23rd, 2012 01:57 |
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Hi and welcome to our sites, John.
I've some hazy recollection of Vit A being a problem in large amounts due to immune interference. However, the reference is long gone out of my memory.
Our general rule of thumb is normal amounts of dietary intake should be sufficient for most.
Also, anything that you "need" to--ingest, take, use--more than twice a week is most likely providing some form of palliation that may or may not be hindering your recovery.
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