MP and Th1 Discussion, Advocate Moderated > General Questions here > Support for those independently on the MP > Robert's Progress (Rockie58)
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MP and Th1 Discussion, Advocate Moderated > General Questions here > Support for those independently on the MP > Robert's Progress (Rockie58) |
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Rockie58 Member
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New Here Hi all, This is my first post on this site and look forward to many more as I figure out how to navigate more freely. I have Lyme Disease as of May 08 and am on Buhner Herbs at the moment but also do Salt/C. I have been mostly symptom free during the course of my illness but am looking to be tested shortly for Vitamin D in Ottawa, Ontario. (Does anyone know of any labs near Ottawa that does the accurate testing - I think Quest is an american company no? Has anyone had any success with LifeLabs or someone else?) With the health crisis in October/November I was persuaded to take more vitamin D and I am showing some bad symptoms at this time including brain inflammation/arthritis/muscle pain. I hope that I am still a candidate for the protocol with my potentially high levels but will have to wait for blood tests to come back. Could I post my results on this site - or who might I give them to? The list of MP doctors in Ontario willing to take patients and prescribe Olmetec has dwindled from 7 to only 3 possibilites that I still can check on. If anyone knows of a doctor near Ottawa I would greatly appreciate a PM. I could also travel outside to Quebec or other parts of Canada if worse comes to worse. Best regards Robert |
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Cynthia Schnitz Board Staff 
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Robert, don't worry about your experience with taking D. Some have taken extremely large doses of D, and have gone on to the protocol without any problems, except that the effectiveness of the MP meds is slowed in the beginning until their 25D level comes down. The only real problem would be moving on to Azithromycin while still having a high 25D, and Zith (our nickname for Azithromycin) should probably be postponed until the D is at or near 12 ng/ml. For those that seem to be having trouble getting their D down, progress can still be made by moving on to the alternate Phase 2 combination of medications that does not include Zith. Zith stays in the system a month and more, so that when the immune system turns up its activity some what abruptly at that low 25D level, you could have intolerable IP (immunopathology) for a long time. The other antibiotics leave the system in just a few days, so adjustment of IP takes place rapidly. You can start avoiding D and sun now, but be prepared to possibly see a little IP from doing that. If you do get IP, you can view that as a mini therapeutic probe. If you get too much IP, you would probably want to back off the avoidance until you start the protocol, with the protective effects of the olmesartan. Cynthia |
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Rockie58 Member
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Many thanks, Cynthia, for replying. I was getting a little ansy but your post was extremely reassuring which is what I need right now. In any event, I read somewhere on this site that if >25ng/mL you can not start the MP and I won't know what mine is till next week. I hope your right. I have some head inflammation and confusion at this moment and am trying to get through this. Recently, my ears also tend to fill up with mucous which is rather strange as I never had it before September. I was councilled that this is a healing reaction but I am starting to doubt this explanation. From your post I gather that even a therapeutic probe can be unpleasant at time - I didn't know that vitamin D could drop so soon w/o benicar. Perhaps the body does this naturally? I guess I'll see in a week or two. Today is the second day off the vitamin D foods and the first day with sunglasses (though I will order the special sunglasses (NoIR) next week). I have two other friends on this site and they were wonderful enough to share it with me. I don't know why I didn't post on this site before - perhaps it is because it has so many categories and the throughput is so large that I don't expect to be heard. I any case, I will not hessitate to post anymore. I know rife is counterindicated while on the program but how can I keep symptoms down if they become unmanageable in the weeks that I search for a doctor? I also do Salt/C until I can find a doctor. Is it possible that a rife frequency may potentiate vitamin D conversion or that salt/c is counterindicated? My brain is rather inflammed right now and I am a little concerned that my symptoms will blow up in the next week. Would people excercise restraint at this time? I need to ask this because I need to be up front with my issues or else I take them for granted. Best Regards Robert |
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Cynthia Schnitz Board Staff
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My understanding is that Rife machines are OK on the MP. So go ahead and use one. If you have too much trouble once you start D avoidance, but not on MP yet, you can go back to a little D foods to relieve the discomfort. I used omega 3 oils for years to suppress an over active immune system, and kept them up until I started the MP. Benicar was a very adequate substitute for the omega 3. I plotted my 25D levels as I went along, and am pretty sure that I was at about 30 ng/ml when I started the MP. As I said, it isn't really important what the level is when you start, tho the MP may be less effective if your levels are high. The only real concern is when starting Zith, which you won't get to early in the MP, and some people have so much IP on Benicar and Mino alone, that they don't get to Zith for a year or more. Don't know anything about Salt/C. Cynthia |
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Leroybrown Member 
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Hi Robert, I went to Lifelabs in Centerpointe for my D tests. In my opinion a high D is even more reason to start the MP, especially to cut out supplementation and foods high in D. I only knew of 1 doctor in Ottawa that would do the MP but she had a 2.5 year waiting list. I was not willing to wait so I called Dr Blaney in Vancouver. Good luck! |
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Rockie58 Member
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Help - new diet needed fats to avoid? As I am pretty new to the MP, I may need to figure out a new dietary plan since a lot of what I was eating was contraindicated. Previously, I was on healingnaturallybybee.com for my candida lyme and was recommended a dietary ratio of 60% fat, 20% protein and 20% low glycemic carbohydrate. The high fat diet that I ate consisted primarily of animal fats(including marrow), coconut oil, organic butter. Protein was chicken,beef, bison with free run eggs and fish. Carbohydrates were lowglycemic green vegetables. NOw that I see that fish and eggs are no good they are gone - but I wonder if I should avoid chicken fat and skin and only take lean cuts of meat since D is in the fat? Is coconut oil, olive oil or organic butter contraindicated in large quantities (ie 2 tablespoons a serving). If so, should I eat more greens instead? Some wild rice or lentils? Do vitamin and mineral tablets contain D if not on the bottle? (Vitamin A,B's,C,E) (Calcium, magnesium Citrate?) I am looking to go on MP as soon as my test results come back and I find a doctor who will prescribe in Ontario though results indicate I may need to go out of province to do this. |
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Joyful Foundation Staff 
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_question_ I wonder if I should avoid chicken fat and skin and only take lean cuts of meat since D is in the fat? _answer_ Some do find they need to do this, but I personally did not need to. I only eat the organic chickens from Whole Foods and that may have made a difference. _question_ Is coconut oil, olive oil or organic butter contraindicated in large quantities (ie 2 tablespoons a serving). If so, should I eat more greens instead? Some wild rice or lentils? _answer_ I think that greens, wild rice and lentils are always a good idea. I have used butter, olive oil, and coconut oil in my diet all through the MP without trouble (usually a tablespoon or less of each per day). If you are already adjusted to those levels, you may not need to eliminate them, but might consider not using more than 3 tablespoons a day for your combined total. (But that's just my thinking and experience.) _question_ Do vitamin and mineral tablets contain D if not on the bottle? (Vitamin A,B's,C,E) (Calcium, magnesium Citrate?) _answer_ It has been the experience of some people that their supplements did in fact contain undeclared D.  Especially anything with herbal ingredients. The best approach is usually to wean off of all supplements and try to get your RDA of minerals and vitamins (except D, of course) in your diet. Also, see this article: http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:othertreatments |
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Knochen Moderator
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http://www.mp-recipes.com/mp_recipes.html For some suggestions |
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Cynthia Schnitz Board Staff
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Joyful wrote: _question_ Rockie, you need to recognize that it is not just Vitamin D that you need to avoid. You need to avoid many supplements because they affect the immune system on their own. Humanity has had hundreds of years to figure out which herbals make people feel better, and to select for that. When you start to kill bacteria, as on the MP, you feel worse, not better, so the method of action in these herbals may well be one of immune suppression. There are too many herbals with unknown active ingredients for any one here to be able to identify all the safe ones, so it is best just to avoid all of them in supplemental quantities except as given in the link above. Cynthia |
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Rockie58 Member
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I just started Benicar 5 days ago. Before starting my main symptoms were: blood vessel inflammation in arm and head Arthritis in knees shooting pains in fingers and torso phlegm in eustachian tube. mild heart palpitations I started at 20 mg 3 times a day. THe increase in symptoms told my doctor that I could quickly up the dose to 40 mg 4 times a day. At this time, my BP is 110/77 which is way down from 140/90 which it was before starting and all my symptoms have decreased at this time except mild insomnia fairly rapid gum disease and gum sensitivity (I would like to keep my teeth) pain behind eyes I am considering taking 1 mg of melatonin for the insomnia unless it interacts with benicar? I am swirling with scope to hopefully keep the biofilm down on my teeth. I have NOirs but do not have excessive light sensitivity at the moment. I was told that this will change soon (3-5 days on the protocol). Although, my symptoms are strongly dampened at the moment I do not expect that this will always be the case in the future as I have quite a ways to go. I did already have some pain in my back muscles over my kidneys early on but this has dissappeared and was likely a herx luckily. My digestion is much better now that I am not on Buhner herbs which were hard on the gut. Things are looking promising for the moment anyways. The main thing is that the inflammation of my veins is way down. Have avoided all vitamin D foods except perhaps animal fat for last month? |
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Joyful Foundation Staff
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Hello and congratulations on your good start.  Some links for your reading pleasure: http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:othertreatments:sleepmeds http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:othertreatments http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:othertreatments:mouthwash http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:symptoms:headandneck:dental http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:pathogenesis:microbiota:biofilm http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:symptoms:pain http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:lifestyle:light:photosensitivity |
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Rockie58 Member
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Thank you so much for the timely information. I am glad that I didn't start melatonin. As for my listerine, it does not contain the additives mentioned but contains others such as poloxamer 407, sodium benzoate & benzoic acid and alcohol. Thus it probably isn't that good for you. I was soaking my nightguard in the solution overnight and have noted much inflammation in my upper gums as a result such that I worry about keeping my teeth. As I am meeting with my dentist tomorrow (who is going to freak out about the recession) I am wondering whether flouride cleaning is recommended or not and potentially whether flouride toothpaste should be used in conjuction with the flossing and CDC mouthwash? I am not a big flouride fan but if it is recommended I may consider it. |
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Joyful Foundation Staff
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Hi Rockie. Some tips from my experience... My hygienist gave me some sample of a soft pick substitute for floss that is very effective. I use it a couple times a day and had a great checkup this past visit. It is called ... GUM soft-picks. I don't use toothpaste of any kind any more, but I do use the Viadent Oral Rinse (from drugstore.com because I can't find it locally) when brushing. I'm no dentist, but I personally avoid flouride. Perhaps if you can persuade your dentist to take a "wait and see" approach until your next appointment, then you can have to time decide if it is IP/herx rather than something else? Dr. Marshall suggested that ultrasound might help with dental issues (maybe it breaks up biofilms?). (See: http://www.marshallprotocol.com/view_topic.php?id=9326&forum_id=35&jump_to=186562#p186562) Unfortunately the one maker of an ultrasound toothbrush has discontinued their product. I did buy one from eBay even though I have no source for replacement brushes. My teeth are very smooth now and feel like they have just been cleaned every time I brush them. My gums seem to be good, maybe a little improved since I started using it (less than two months). Last edited on Sat Feb 6th, 2010 00:42 by Joyful |
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Rockie58 Member
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MP meds: 4*40mg Benicar for 15 days Natural light exposure: Very little. Am covered up. Have NoIRs if go outside and even indoors. I have some light sensitivity in last 5 days but not excessive at all at this point. Symptoms: (severity on a scale of 1-10) 5 (Recent 3 days) Heel discomfort (tolerable and cycles every 2 days) 4 Arthritis symptoms/inflammation in hand joints though is worse in morning (tolerable) 4 Inflammation of arteries in arms 5 hours after benicar dosage(tolerable) 3 Itchy skin and briefly itchy testicles (intermittent and tolerable) Comments: 12 days ago had strong chest symptoms (8) and tightness but went away and has not revisited me since. Seem to have a handle on gum disease with my waterpik, brushing/flossing/salt water gargle 3 times a day. Questions: I was told by my MP to beef up a little and not to be too worried about carbohydrates yet am scared of some foods. Can someone say whether the following foods are not allowed in small quantities? Kefir with no vit D added (I need some Calcium) Cheese - what kinds ??? Lentils and Wild Rice Pork (including fat) Eggplant/Tomato/small Pear I haven't had any fruit or dairy (besides organic butter) in 6 months. and I have had a mainly coconut oil and animal fats diet. I may try introducing a few foods every week. I need to stay away from foods containing sea salt or regular iodized salt as kidneys hurt 2 hours after eating it but goes away in 12 hours. I need to be vigilant about potassium or iodide. |
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jcwat101 Research Professional
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I think those foods are alright if they agree with you. People usually find cheese alright if it says 6% or less of vitamin A and doesn't mention adding vitamin D. You could look here http://mpkb.org and look up the article on food to give an overview. I was wondering, was your 25-D converted to the units we usually use here? I assume not, since it is 101. As it says at the KB -- <<To convert nmol/L into ng/ml, multiply by 0.40>> That would give 40.4. Could you change your signature line? Thanks, Joyce Waterhouse |
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Rockie58 Member
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MP meds: 4*40mg Benicar (1 Month anniversary) 3 tablets Nystatin (500000 Units) Natural light exposure: Wear NoIRs outside though eyes only light sensitive in dark areas with bright lights so far. Its winter so am covered up. Symptoms: (severity on a scale of 1-10) 6 Phelgm in throat and oral cavity 4 Runny Nose after eating 3 Right Heel discomfort seems to be lessening and less frequent 2 Arthritis symptoms/inflammation in hand joints though is worse in morning (tolerable). Occurs the day after playing classical guitar. 2 Inflammation of arteries in arms 5 hours after benicar dosage(tolerable) 3 Sores and red dots on bottom of right foot (toxins?) Continue to have toe-nail fungus on that foot too(tolerable). 1 Itchy skin (intermittent and tolerable) Comments: Symptoms have decreased in last 10 days except for the first two which have come on. Ate some lentils (soaked overnight) last week and developed an orange tongue and tonnes of phlegm having to expectorate every 2 minutes. I think it was a yeast infection so am taking 3 Nystatin tablets a dayto control this. I have also cut out foods lilke Kefir which has some sugar content to it and am eating garlic/onions. I think my runny nose and phlegm may be due to the yeast infection and it may have also slowed my immune system down a little though I still feel positive. I make sure to shower once a day in order to get rid of toxins which seem to build up daily After shower, I seem to be back to normal and have lots of gunk (toxins) coming out of eyes when I wake up. My gums have stopped recessing by brushing/flossing and using a waterpik 3 times a day but need to be steady in this. Have to take betaine hydrochloride and enzymes for gerd unfortunately. THe former contains pharmaceutical glaze but will try to look for another brand that doesn't contain this. Questions: Besides onion and garlic how to handle yeast and does the MP potentially help the Immune system to get rid of yeast. Is cinnamon allowable on MP? |
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jcwat101 Research Professional
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Not everything is yeast that seems to be, according to what Trevor has posted in the past. You might want to search the site for other's experiences with yeast. You could also search for posts with "yeast Trevor" to see what he says. People do tend to find their "yeast symptoms" improve over time on the MP. Spices are O.K. in small amounts, but not recommended when used in large amounts for their purported medicinal qualities. Search http://mpkb.org for alternative non MP therapies for our position. Joyce Waterhouse |
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Cynthia Schnitz Board Staff
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In addition to what Joyce says about not taking spices like cinnamon in medicinal doses, common cinnamon contains a chemical at a high content level that can damage your liver. Only Ceylon cinnamon, from a different plant than Saigon cinnamon, contains a much lower level of the offending chemical, and Ceylon cinnamon is almost never used any more. Cynthia |
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jcwat101 Research Professional
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I should add that you should check the KB for anti fungals -- they are contraindicated unless really necessary. Joyce Waterhouse |
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Rockie58 Member
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Allowable Anesthetics Hi there, I am on 160mg Benicar and will have to have a tooth pulled soon because it has a root canal and is infected. I heard that epinephrine (and norepinephrine) in local anesthetics may be a problem on the medication. Are there any others that I should be aware of so that I can tell my dentist? Many thanks |
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bobsyouruncle Member 
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Not sure if you saw this: http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:othertreatments:anesthetics I have experienced the 'strong reactions' mentioned for anesthetics with epinephrine. Bob |
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Carole Board Staff
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Rockie, you may utilize the Google Custom Search option at the top of this screen, as well as the one at the new MP Knowledge Base. In the meantime, this link may answer your specific dental question. http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:special:dentist Best to you! . . . Carole |
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Rockie58 Member
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Root Canals and MP Hi there, I was surprised to learn that some peoples root canals have healed or stopped becoming a source of infection while on MP. I would like to know how common this is and what questions one needs to ask in order to decide whether a tooth with root canal can be salvaged (ie not having the tooth extracted)? I have a tooth extraction procedure coming up because I was scared that the infection in my gums might be a source of bad health. As my immune system started ramping up this month, the gum around the root canal has developed a black and blue mascara line about 1 mm in thickness on the inner side and 0.5 mm on the outside. The gum/tooth is a little sensitive at the base and I have some really minor ear pain at the moment. At first I thought I wasn't going to make it through the weekend without getting a heart attack. Even though the gum is a little sore, I still have some faith in the tooth and my body to heal and may decide to put off the root extraction if I feel that it doesn't need to go. My understanding was that a root canal can shelter bacteria, and since it is essentially nonliving, it offers a place where biofilms can form. I suppose that these elaborate networks can shuttle in nutrients from pathways extenting to the living body but don't know about this for sure. For that reason, I thought that tooth extraction is necessary in any event. But I have heard of others on this site that think it might be possible to live with a root canal afterall like I was able to before I supplemented with vitamin D. My dentist is not really up on the MP and wasn't really impressed by the black and blue mascara line around the tooth. My gums have major recession. She also noted that their is a lot of bone resorption (due to my obviously high 1,25D levels I suspect) at the root of the tooth and thus is not really worth saving. She may be hard to convince but as long as I am in no immediate danger I wonder if I should wait and see. Perhaps, the reason I am putting this off is that I am not really looking forward to any trauma jaw as I do tend to heal slowly (My tongue would not heal properly when I bit it unless I put salt on the wound). Thus, putting off the surgery might afford me some time for the body to adjust (I have only been on MP for 1 month and would like to give it a chance to save my tooth from an unnecessary extraction) and as my gum develops an absess, it will become obvious at that point whether an extraction would be necessary or not. Moreover, it may allow my body to better heal itself after a trauma? Any thoughts? |
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Marysue Board Staff 
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Rockie, If you are able to wait a little and see how it goes, you might be more clear about any decision you and your dentist make to remove the tooth. Dental related IP is common and sometimes, given a few days or even a few weeks if possible, many times the symptoms resolve. During my first several months on Benicar only, I had three separate episodes of severe dental IP, including a loosening tooth with a root canal and a slight crack that my dentist was determined to remove. Even that tooth became more secure as the gums tightened and the pain subsided after about a week. Because a tooth removal is permanent, and if there are no signs of immediate "danger", I recommend waiting. Marysue |
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Rockie58 Member
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Dear MarieSue, Thanks a million for jumping in. I had already decided before yesterday that I needed to save my tooth as it just didn't feel right to have the surgery and I talked to a friend who suggested rifing. In any event, I probably clued in to what you were writing as I am somewhat psychic and too believe to save your teeth and the injury of the surgery. Both my doctor and my dentist believe the tooth should be removed but I decided to experiment and see what rifing does. It may be palliative but I honesty think that it really kills the bugs as well. In any event, it will give me a few more days or weeks and perhaps end up saving the tooth? After rifing yesterday, I have a small herx and feel comfortable for about a day. I have a feeling that this is the right way to go. It is nice to know that there are people that have patience as most dentists can not think outside the box and are just "drill, fill and Bill" Many thanks again |
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Joyful Foundation Staff
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Hi Rockie, When I added a particular antibiotic, clindamycin, to the MP it was a time for some serious dental IP. It mostly resolved on it's own and the pain was mostly from the swelling due to the IP. However, after I was more stable on the MP I did get a root canal on the problem tooth (after about 22 months on the MP). I think these decisions are very individual, but saving a tooth sounds right for me.  |
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Rockie58 Member
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MP meds: 4*40mg Benicar 3 *500,000 Nystatin Natural light exposure: Am still covered up but exposed to fluorescent lights at school where I wear my NoIR's most of the time. I have light sensitivity worse at some times than at others. Have pain in behind eyes due (most likely) to bacterial infection there. It is not bad. Symptoms: (severity on a scale of 1-10) 8 Drowsiness lethary 2 hours after lunch. (Die-off?) 6 Pimples/sores on right foot 5 Post nasal drip 3 Pain in behind Eyes 1 Heart Palpitations minimal Comments: I apologize for not reporting in sooner, but I have been struggling with Yeast symptoms to the point where it impacts life. I have thus done 2 things that perhaps would not be recommended by the group. Since any large amount of carbs cause overgrowth, I still am on a high-fats diet though I have still made progress on vitamin D levels (see below). As well, I have taken Nystatin on recommendation of my MP doctor and supplemented with up to 6 TBSP Coconut oil/day to keep yeast in check. I really wish that I will be able to stop the latter as soon as possible and that my immune system starts to kick in so that I can eat properly once again. I do not eat fruit and only minimal vegetables. Nuts are a problem and cause Yeast problems accompanied by vice-like muscle cramps in calves. I really don't have much of an option here. Strangely, though I eat plenty of animal fats (broth) I was pleasantly surprised that my D levels went down as much as they did - however, I would suspect that they would have gone down more if did not have to resort to diet. Heels pain gone Arthritis(pain) is pretty much gone but still inflammed at times when play guitar. Still have inflammation in blood vessels near end of 6 hours on Benicar. Still not out of the woods by a long shot Psoriasis on R calve is almost disappeared (fizzled out) after having grown from mid February to mid-April. A skin injury in November didn't start to heal until starting the MP in February. Used coconut oil topically but this may not have added anything to the healing??? Got a ultrasonic toothbrush that totally handles plaque buildup - my teeth would feel rough every day but that is gone. I still wonder if 3 month checkups are still necessary if need to save some money. I feel that the gums are getting much better. Recently had a blood test that showed improvement. April23/10 Jan 16/10 25-D 70 nmol/L 100 nmol/L 1,25-D 127 pmol/L 176 pmol/L I was initially concerned that my RBC and WBC were so low; but on consultation with my MP doctor, this is not so different from others experiences. April23/10 Oct15/09 hemoglobin 124 159 hematocrit 0.37 0.465 Red blood cells 3.89 4.92 White blood Cells 3.6 3.7 My creatinine levels were fine as I drink tonnes of water throughout the day 10-15 cups. April23/10 Oct16/09 creatinine 90 85 eGFR 81 94 Questions: I regret to doing coconut oil/yeast diet. I still wonder if it caused my immune system to eat too much infected RBC's. At the same time, I feel very peppy and strong regardless of my anemia yet it is very early in my treatment. Is any advice possible at this point as to use of antifungals from anyone who had to resort to this and related to this: at what level of D-25 could my immune system kick back on? I heard at a medical lecture last month that nicotinamide (vitamin B3) kills yeast better than diflucan or nystatin yet I know that it may produce a flush. This seems really scary for someone on the MP and don't know if this solution is valid for myself. Anybody have any ideas. I am curious if their are any vitamin C tablets that do not have vitamin D in them. I have not had any fruit and only minimal vegetables. I think that if such a source exists it would be helpful yet perhaps tomatoes and green peppers may be a more natural source? |
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Rockie58 Member
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After talking to my dental hygenist today I realized that I was completely wrong about something a while back. The black 1mm thick mascara line around my back root canal was the bottom of a crown that got oxidized over time - not the obvious sign of an infection as I previously thought. At the same time, I can not rule out the idea that the root canal is a source of infection for my whole body and that keeping the tooth would prolong my recovery. The doctor notes the loss of jaw bone in the area (which I feel could be due to bacterial infection?). I guess the question is, "Do membes find that there are any obvious signs that a root canal is infected". I am in month 6 of the MP (only Benicar still) and 2 days ago I noticed a barrage of new symptoms developing: swollen glands, arthritis in hands, arthritis in knees, elbows, shoulders and all over; itchy skin and resurgence of psoriasis, pimples emerging on face torso, legs and eruptions on feet. Increased pressure in head on all sides. I had gone on a rather long bicycle ride the day before and perhaps overdid it (but the forest oxygen was stimulating to the heart and the senses). In any event, I would dearly love to know if this is a herx or a sign of a spreading infection - but how can you tell? I recently had a blood test done and results should be coming back in a day or two. I wonder if my Vit D-25 level somehow is lower than 16. Perhaps the above symptoms may be brought on by heightened immune response. Lets hope. In any regard, my tooth extraction appointment is for tomorrow but I may have to be stubborn and forgo this if I feel that the tooth still has some purpose? I am slightly reticent about losing it after all and any trauma that occurs as a result. So, I am curious, what sort of herx symptoms do people experience when their Immune systems start to kick in at the magic D25=12 nmol number and was this correlated with any other bloodwork. Also, what are people's opinions on keeping/getting rid of root canals? |
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Marysue Board Staff
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Hi Rockie-- I think it can be helpful to remember that ANY stimulation to the body is likely to increase IP symptoms--especially exercise such as you describe. I know it can feel good to "get some fresh air" once in awhile, and as long as you are careful not to overdo it, you'll be alright. Just try to remember that it's going to increase IP, so be prepared to let your body work through it. Also, it sounds like you are possibly moving into the target range for 25-D levels and you may be experiencing an increased level of immune activation as a result. It will be interesting to see what your levels are now. I've been on Benicar only for about 15 months. I noticed a distinct increase in immune activation at about 3 months when my D-levels dropped to 10 and then again at about 8-9 months. I think it is possible to experience increased symptoms over time as the immune system is able to target more bacteria. Even at 6 months, you could be in a period of increased immune activation. As for the root canal, perhaps others will chime in. I have three that I just keep an eye on--I've had tooth pain as IP in those teeth, at times bordering on intolerable, but eventually it passes. I prefer to think it's IP as many others have described various tooth/dental issues eventually resolving on the MP without intervention. Marysue |
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Rockie58 Member
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Thanks Mary Sue, Though it is still a possibility, I have decided against the root canal treatment at this present time though this may still change down the road? Who knows. I don't really have any pain or discomfort in the area but rather it is just barely noticeable throb that something is going on. In the meantime I got my bloodwork back this morning and will post soon. My Creatinine levels are high 147 (62-115 Canada )and eGFR is a little low 46 (60-89 Canada) - probably not the best time for a tooth extraction considering that you have to go off of Benicar to reduce bleeding. At the same time, my Bloodcounts increased back into the normal (from subnormal range) and may be an indication that more bug killing was starting to go on. Still, I went off of Benicar temporarily for 28 hours as I was considering the surgury before restarting again today. I currently have a little discomfort in flank area but hope this resolves soon and Benicars protective effects kick in. In any event, I will have a urinalysis and BUN and try to get a creatinine clearance test to make sure I am in tip top shape. BTW, I am amazed at your D-25 levels, being that it is summer, do you avoid all light even the stuff that comes into your apartment? what about lamp light? I was hoping that mine would budge a little more than they did over the last 3 months but am not really disappointed. My D-25 level is now 22 and I think it quite possible that I was feeling a general body herx after all, rather than a spreading infection after all. It may just be kicking in as when I went off of Benicar, symptoms reduced quite dramatically. I think that I can look forward to Arthritis, skin itching/eruptions, brain fog and tiredness as my D levels continue to go down especially when we get into the winter. |
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Marysue Board Staff
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Rockie, Your 25-D levels certainly appear to be on a steady decline. In time, they'll drop into the target range. You should expect to experience some noticeable increase in immune activation as a result of the dropping levels over the next few months. As for mine, I am overdo for getting them checked again. And yes, I do limit my light exposure almost completely during daylight hours. My symptoms were quite severe two years ago when I first came upon the MP info and even small amounts of light exposure caused immediate intolerable symptoms. So, I learned to adjust to a new lifestyle by default.  Now, it's just habit and a desire to keep my immune system activated along with the Benicar.Marysue |
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Rockie58 Member
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MP meds: 4*40mg Benicar Natural light exposure: As it is summer I occasionally wear long shorts when going outside on small trips. I try to put on ZnO sunblock on legs and face and wear wide-brimmed hat. Wear my NoIR's most of the time though have very little light sensitivity anymore. Symptoms: (severity on a scale of 1-10) 2 Drowsiness lethary 2 hours after lunch. (Die-off?) 6 Pimples/sores on right foot and body 2 Post nasal drip 4 Pain in behind Eyes/Floaters 4 Inflammation in hands/arms 4 Sore Throat Comments: Finished with Nystatin. Stopped including Coconut oil, Garlic in diet as Yeast Symptoms seem to be less though I am still on a high animal-fats diet. I do not eat fruit and only minimal vegetables. Immune response seems to have kicked in last month though have Arthritis at times after playing guitar. Went off of Benicar for 30 hours while potentially getting a root canal pulled. Still have some muscle pain in Kidney area and am watching this with my Lyme Doctors supervision. He recommended getting off of ABX (though I wasn't on any at the time but was taking Coconut Oil which I have whittled down). Developed soreness/tenderness in the kidney area with pimples. Going off of Coconut oil causes me to have a scratchy throat most of the time now which is either a good sign though I don't know if it is a sign that yeast is growing back (I have a yellowish/white tongue which quite likely are toxins in the morning or growing Candida). It may be that although Coconut oil is antifungal it may interact with Benicar which decreases kidney response. If anyone does know how this interacts, please let me know. My Creatinine/eGFR levels are somewhat out of whack. Urinalysis is fine for now and will get retested if any new developments in pain, frequency of urination. Psoriasis on R calve made a bit of a comeback in last month but use Coconut oil topically only. Recently had a blood test that showed improvement. Aug 5/10 April23/10 Jan 16/10 25-D 57 70 nmol/L 100 nmol/L 1,25-D 97 127 pmol/L 176 pmol/L RBC and WBC made a comeback like MP doctor said it would Aug5/10 April23/10 Oct15/09 hemoglobin 143 124 159 hematocrit 0.44 0.37 0.465 Red blood cells 4.66 3.89 4.92 White blood Cells 5.0 3.6 3.7 Unfortunately my creatinine/eGFR levels got out of whack with increase of immune system. I still drink tonnes of water throughout the day 10-15 cups. Aug5/10 April23/10 Oct16/09 creatinine 147 90 85 eGFR 46 81 94 Questions: Does anyone know the interaction of Coconut oil/Garlic with Benicar (on the immune system and/or kidney elimination?) Other ways to get creatinine/eGFR to better levels? Is a sore throat a usual sign of getting a cold on MP? |
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Joyful Foundation Staff
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Thanks for posting with all the excellent details. Improve kidney numbers by increasing frequency of olmesartan/Benicar to every 4 hours. http://mpkb.org/home/mp/mpmeds/olmesartan/dosing#dosing_in_response_to_strong_immunopathology Garlic increases IP for many. Coconut oil may increase IP. If your immune response is recovering to stage 4, the sun exposure on skin could increase IP as well. Sore throat can be IP. I can usually cut a sore throat short by using one of these. Last edited on Mon Aug 16th, 2010 17:25 by Joyful |
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Rockie58 Member
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24 Creatinine Clearance in Canada How to get test done in Canada? My GP in Canada is not aware of a 24 hr creatinine clearance test, or if he is, does not think much of its efficacy to describe it. He has ordered another creatinine and eGFR test thought. When prompted he just said that the clearance test was a formula that you plug some numbers into. I don't know if he needs some extra information? So just to clarify, what is the test in Canada? I am only imagining at this point that you are given a rather large container (initially by the lab?) and then asked to fill it with urine over a 24 hr period which you might keep in the fridge??? After which you send that to the lab and at the same time get a creatinine blood test. Is this about right? I would need to clarify this with my doctor. |
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Rockie58 Member
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Also, I hear that you should restrict protein to 8 oz over 24 hours as this may influence a reading (too high)? Will the test not work if you eat more? |
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Rockie58 Member
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So Confused about D Foods I am so confused about vitamin D and the Banned foods list. As I have had some yeast issues in the past, I was on a low carb diet and was even swayed to increase my animal fats/proteins for some time. As my creatinine levels were abnormally high on my last test, last week I decided to try a new food, specifically pork lard and thereby decrease the protein load on my kidneys. (24 hr creatinine clearance test results back this week) I thought this might not be a bad idea as my D levels have steadily decreased over the last 8 months even with my diet being rich in butter and other animal fat juices. Indeed I have seen my D-25 levels drop from 40 to 30 to 23 this month even though my consumption remained the same. (On the other hand, perhaps eating vitamin D foods increases the lowest D-25 level one can attain since my last result did not drop as much). Over the last 5 days I have been eating Pork Lard as it supposedly has numerous health benefits and means less protein with same amount of energy. I have felt very healthy on it though it has definitely increased the number of symptoms I feel as well (immunopathology, brain fog, itchy skin/eyes, floaters, pin pricks, arthritis) especially within minutes of taking a Benicar pill. I was so sure that the lard was healthy and that it was working in tandem with the new diet to increase IP. Today, I relearn that this food has really high vitamin D levels and makes me question what these symptoms may mean? (whenever I get eye floaters it make me think that things are getting worse). I read that some people experience IP when eating vitamin D Foods and others experience IP when going off of vitamin D foods. I don't understand how IP can increase when increasing D because it is supposed to shut the system down. Thus, is it more accurate to say that the underlying chronic condition is getting worse? I wonder if any others have had any experience with pork lard? Or rather, has their been any peer-reviewed studies on high vitamin D diets and their accumulation in body fats, blood or muscle (in humans or otherwise) that might help resolve this question? As another subscriber admits to cheating on vitamin D foods for a week while not having their D levels going up over 10, I wonder whether it is possible that the vitamin D that we eat goes immediately to the cells (if it is low there) and thus does not show up in a blood test? Many thanks for any insights you might have Rockie58 |
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Cynthia Schnitz Board Staff
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Rockie, I think the problem with pork fat, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that it might have high D. I seem to recall it was a matter of what the pigs are fed. Since they get just about anything that has nutrient value (garbage), they may be getting recycled D, which is stored in their fat. Cynthia |
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Aunt Diana Member
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Cynthia, and Rockie, Cynthia is right about pork fat....or any animal fat. fat is where vitamin D is stored, I don't know where I read this but it was somewhere on the MP site. My diet is not that rigid but I do avoid fish, egg yolks and milk that's been supplemented, and all foods with added vit. D. I regularly eat meat, butter , Whole wheat bread, veggies of all kinds, fruits of all kinds, potatoes and rice (non enriched), yogurt (natural), olive oil, pasta and I snack on crackers and cheese. I do not go hungry and my vit d is under 4, last blood test. It's not really hard...you just need to avoid fish and enriched foods. Best if you keep things simple and make your meals from scratch. Cut off all the fat from meat products....that's where the D is stored. I even will eat bacon but I'm careful to drain most of the fat. Sometimes one piece of bacon in a dish will make all the difference in taste and in moderation, won't be a problem. |
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Rockie58 Member
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High Benicar dosages What is a safe dosage of Benicar My MP doc recently allowed me to take 9 Benicar a day - 40 mg every 4 hours and 20 mg 2h within each 4 h period. This was done to decrease inflammation in arms and arthritis in hands. It has done the right job. I am not sure what brought this recent bout on but I am curious whether this dosage is safe for long periods of time or what to look out for in the long term? As I understand it, the greater the benicar dosage, the more anti-inflammatory it becomes and more it protects us and our organs. |
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Rockie58 Member
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Orange- yellow tongue Yeast symptom or toxins I don't know if anyone has had the following symptom. I was wondering if anyone on the MP has experienced a tongue coated with funky orange-yellow junk and what this could be? The reason I ask is that I am trying to figure out if it is part of a systemic yeast infection or bacterial toxins being released? |
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JT Board Staff 
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The safety of Benicar (olmesartan) and its protective effects are discussed in this document: http://mpkb.org/home/protocol/olmesartan/safety |
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Rico Moderator
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The MP allows Olmesartan 20mg every 3-4 hours sublingual along with 40mg to help when IP is very bad (or a missed dose). Here's more... Safety of olmesartan (Benicar) Olmesartan (Benicar) Dosage and administration of olmesartan |
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Cynthia Schnitz Board Staff
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You have a PM (Private Message) upper right. Click on '1 new message'. Cynthia |
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