 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
matthew.gatenby
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 295 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16th, 2009 17:52 |
|
i have written many posts and reasearched many issues on this topic and i am fearful for the "flu shot"
check out my posts on benicar being used as a treatment in flu paitents
what i do not want is the responsibility ot the righteous attitude to tell people they should not do it or should do it ..
i have known 2 sarc paitents .. not the broadest sample etc etc ... and both ended up in hospital.. i really dont think unless youve had h1n1 or the "innoculation" you should deviate form the facts ...
but .. i will say this i cannot comprehensively say that the reason why they were in hospital was tamiflu .. it seems sarc etc paitents do not like it
same as the actual flu injection does not seem to be very effective
i am just tired of re writting myself and the original question is can or should i take the flu vaccine ...
the end answer .... look it up, use science ... but do not place your personal beliefs upon people in this instance .. it is dangerous.
stick to the facts.
|
thelymelight
Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ontario Canada |
| Posts: | 94 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 17th, 2009 20:06 |
|
Here is an article that appeared in the October issue of Vitality Magazine, in the Toronto, Ontario area…Dr. Zolton Rona (who is actually a very reputable complimentary M.D. in Toronto) discusses alternatives you can take in place of the flu & H1N1 vaccines. Funny enough he and others recommend high doses of Vitamin D, which he states is a natural antibiotic, that works against every type of microbe (viruses, bacteria, fungi and parasites)...
Uhhh?
Here is the article in full: http://www.vitalitymagazine.com/oct09_pg32feat
and some quotes from the article:
On the other hand, vitamin D appears to be far more important. Vitamin D has strong antibiotic properties and some studies indicate that optimal blood levels will prevent the flu far better than those toxic flu shots.
Ever wonder why some people are more prone to colds and flus? One study indicates that the incidence of upper respiratory tract infections is inversely correlated with vitamin D blood levels. The lower the vitamin D blood level, the higher the likelihood of infection. This confirms an observation that I have made on numerous occasions with my private practice patients. Each year I see the infection rates rise during the winter as vitamin D levels plummet, and each summer the exact opposite occurs.
I have definitely found that those of my patients who have 25 (OH) vitamin D levels of 175 nmol/L or higher get few, if any, colds or flus during the winter. I have also found that I need to bump up the supplement recommendations to 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 per day in both the winter and summer to achieve such levels in the majority of the people that supplement with vitamin D.
Dr. John Cannell, MD, suggests high-dose vitamin D (50,000 IU) be consumed for three days at the first sign of a cold or the flu. If you have an infection, the truth is you need more vitamin D. That’s a given. In other words, vitamin D acts as a natural antibiotic. It works against every type of microbe (viruses, bacteria, fungi and parasites).
Vitamin D deficiency is common during the winter months, especially in countries far north of the equator. Vitamin D acts as an immune system modulator, preventing excessive production of inflammatory cytokines and increasing macrophage (a type of white cell) activity. Vitamin D also stimulates the production of potent anti-microbial peptides in other white blood cells and in epithelial cells lining the respiratory tract, protecting the lungs from infection.
- Vitamin D is not a vitamin, but a steroid hormone precursor, which has profound effects on innate immunity.
- The only blood test to determine vitamin D adequacy is a 25-hydroxy-vitamin D, not the 1,25-di-hydroxy-vitamin D test many physicians now order.
- The mechanism of action of vitamin D in infection, dramatically increasing the body’s production of broad-spectrum natural antibiotics (anti-microbial peptides or AMP), suggests pharmaceutical doses of vitamin D (1,000 IU per pound of body weight per day for several days) will effectively treat not only influenza and the common cold, but help treat a host of other seasonal infections, including meningitis, septicemia, and pneumonia, in both children and adults.
Admin Add: Dr Marshall posts: Amy and Paul have written an article on Bacteriality which might be helpful in understanding why so many people could make such a terrible error. You can find it at:
http://bacteriality.com/2009/08/10/iom/
Paul and Amy gave testimony before the Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences in Washington. And none of the 'experts' were able to laugh them out of the room. That's a sobering thought, isn't it 
Enjoy!
____________________
Lyme, Babesia, 20 yrs w/neuro-psych-cognitive |125D/30, 25D/8 (Sep08), Weaning hydrocortisone- Feb08, Ph1Feb09, 25D10(Feb09),25D6(Nov09),25D8(Jun10),
|
eClaire
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 377 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 17th, 2009 20:40 |
|
My 25D was not tested until I had been supplementing it for over a year and even then it was low (and I was not able to increase the amount I took to get the super cures they are talking about because I was very sick with Th1 illness and the extra D3 made me want to vomit).
However, I have been sick most of my life and I suspect my D was low most of the time. And YET I never had a cold (got my first one and only one a year into the MP) and only a few viruses. Indeed, the only abnormal lab test when I was 30 (other than my allergy tests, which showed an allergy to just about every known substance) was a virus titer, which "showed" that I had had an abnormally low number of viruses in my life.
So was it my low 25D that was preventing me from having colds and other viruses all those year? Instead, I spent my 20s learning how to avoid and manage bacterial infections in my lungs, pharynx and sinuses. Pretty much figured out that trick (and it did not involve 25D) or the bacteria moved on to other targets.
These people do not know what they are talking about because they are not measuring 1,25D and 25D and they do not understand the relationship between them nor do they understand immune suppression. They think we, us chronically ill people, have "autoimmune" disease--that our bodies are attacking us for no good reason. They're not even looking at the new research about bacteria EXCEPT to try to figure out how the new information can be fit into their pet theories about 25D.
My two cents for what it is worth,
Claire
Last edited on Sat Oct 17th, 2009 20:43 by eClaire
____________________
42mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings;
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009 * Olm.alone.Jun10
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | On Vacation |
| Posts: | 984 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 05:58 |
|
To repeat a few thoughts that were posted on other threads...
>> flumist (nasal vaccine) is LIVE and recipients can pass virus to others
>> flu shot/jab/injection is not live, but still has concerns
Also, the following came from an email passed along to me today by a doctor I know...
The only portals of entry are the nostrils and mouth/throat.
In a global epidemic of this nature, it's almost impossible not coming into contact with H1N1 in spite of all precautions. Contact with H1N1 is not so much of a problem as proliferation is. (proliferation = spreading around body.)
While you are still healthy and not showing any symptoms of H1N1 infection, in order to prevent proliferation, aggravation of symptoms and development of secondary infections, some very simple steps, not fully highlighted in most official communications, can be practiced ...:
-- "Hands-off-the-face" approach.
Resist all temptations to touch any part of face (unless you want to eat, or bathe).
-- Gargle twice a day with warm salt water (use Listerine if you don't trust salt).
H1N1 takes 2-3 days after initial infection in the throat/nasal cavity to proliferate and show characteristic symptoms. Simple gargling prevents proliferation.. In a way, gargling with salt water has the same effect on a healthy individual that Tamiflu has on an infected one. Don't under estimate this simple, inexpensive and powerful preventative method.
-- Similar to above, clean your nostrils at least once every day with warm salt water.
Not everybody may be good at using a Neti pot, but blowing the nose hard once a day and swabbing both nostrils with cotton swabs dipped in warm salt water is very effective in bringing down viral population.
-- Drink as much of warm liquids (tea, broth, etc) as you can.
Drinking warm liquids has the same effect as gargling, but in the reverse direction. They wash off proliferating viruses from the throat into the stomach where they cannot survive, proliferate or do any harm.
>> home made chicken soup really is my favorite home remedy
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 06:09 by Joyful
____________________
MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
|
matthew.gatenby
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 295 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 11:39 |
|
id like to state one simple fact
you will all get the flu..
anyone here that has never had the spanish flu .. raise their hands
and there will be none..
everyone eiter eventually contacted it or was born with antibodies from their parents having it ..
prevention in the flu is like trying to stop death you can delay it but its inevitable
|
thelymelight
Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ontario Canada |
| Posts: | 94 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 15:44 |
|
thanks for these greats tips Joyful!!
____________________
Lyme, Babesia, 20 yrs w/neuro-psych-cognitive |125D/30, 25D/8 (Sep08), Weaning hydrocortisone- Feb08, Ph1Feb09, 25D10(Feb09),25D6(Nov09),25D8(Jun10),
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | On Vacation |
| Posts: | 984 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 07:23 |
|
Matthew wrote:
prevention in the flu is like trying to stop death you can delay it but its inevitable
I guess that (and HOMEMADE CHICKEN SOUP) about sums it all up. 
____________________
MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
|
katezzz
Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 14:55 |
|
Question:
If mega doses of Vitamin D stop people from "coming down with the flu," i.e., manifesting immunopathology, does that mean that the virus just takes up residence? (Clearly, D proponents believe it is killed on contact in a D-protected individual.) Is there any proof of this? Can either side prove its position? Or is it all theory about what's actually going on?
kate
____________________
RA since 1988; AP since 1993; MP Nov. 2008; Phase 2:
Was up to Zith 62, stopped b/c strong IP. Benicar q6, Tylenol prn| 25D: May 09: D=14, Dec 09: D=10, June 10: D=12 http://www.curemyth1.org/forum7/2509.html
|
thelymelight
Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ontario Canada |
| Posts: | 94 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 16:02 |
|
Good Question Kate,
That is what I also wanted to know...
Lisa
____________________
Lyme, Babesia, 20 yrs w/neuro-psych-cognitive |125D/30, 25D/8 (Sep08), Weaning hydrocortisone- Feb08, Ph1Feb09, 25D10(Feb09),25D6(Nov09),25D8(Jun10),
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | On Vacation |
| Posts: | 984 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 17:45 |
|
Kate,
To answer your question I went back to the Prague presentation where Dr. Marshall makes a good summary of the MP science.
While talking to slide #18, Dr. Marshall explained this:
The VDR Nuclear Receptor—in man—is responsible for some key endogenous antimicrobials. That means, antimicrobials that are produced in the human body itself. There are 24, approximately, families that have been identified and about 17 of them are affected by the VDR directly or indirectly. So it’s absolutely key.
In particular, the Cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide, the receptor TLR-2—that’s the one that’s been on the previous slides of all the other speakers as the one recognizing Chlamydia—that gets knocked out, when you knock out the VDR. You knock out out Cathelicidin and you knock out beta-defensins. At that point, the cells immune defenses have been virtually knocked out.
You may remember that 25D and 1,25D both dock into the VDR at the same location, but with different effects.
If the nuclear receptor is docked by a molecule of 25D, it shuts down the VDR and therefore turns OFF the production of immune complexes, allowing any infections present to persist.
This should help clarify that taking a D supplement to try and raise your 25D levels is going to hamper your immune response ...
... and, yes, possibly allow a new pathogenic community to make it's home in your body.
If you haven't watched the presentation, or at least reviewed the transcript, I recommend it: Presentation - It is time to bury Koch - Infectious disease transitions to an understanding of the Metagenome
____________________
MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
|
katezzz
Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 17:49 |
|
| I've watched it several times and I do understand about the AMPs. But whether the immune system is under-functioning because of Th1 disease or suppressed through Vitamin D supplementation, I still don't understand what happens to the virus. Is there proof that it joins the microbiota and does slow damage, unnoticed for many years?
____________________
RA since 1988; AP since 1993; MP Nov. 2008; Phase 2:
Was up to Zith 62, stopped b/c strong IP. Benicar q6, Tylenol prn| 25D: May 09: D=14, Dec 09: D=10, June 10: D=12 http://www.curemyth1.org/forum7/2509.html
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | On Vacation |
| Posts: | 984 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 20:05 |
|
Ok, I guess another helpful piece of the puzzle is something I learned while watching Dr. Peterson's 2008 Presentation in Sweden.
Remember that the assertion from the MP science is that when our immune function is crippled, all of these pathogens just "move in" and persist within the body.
As I am remembering from his presentation, they used a viral microarray (DNA tests) technology in the ongoing research by the Whittemore Peterson Institute for Neuro-Immune Disease, and found something important: “The average chronic fatigue syndrome patient on the day they were tested had between 30-50 viruses; the average control had 3 or 4” Dr. Daniel Peterson, 2008 Swedish Conference (around 32 minutes into the video).
Dr. Peterson noted that the types of viruses most commonly found were viruses that are "latent viruses, but can be reactivated."
These findings suggest that a person with an immune dysfunction will indeed collect pathogens, perhaps even "silently" as they go through life. 
____________________
MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
|
eClaire
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 377 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:02 |
|
A friend sent these to me:
Possible deaths from H1N1 vaccine reported in Sweden
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/281228
The German Medical Association is now warning that the Swine flu vaccine is "unsuitable" for patients suffering from environmental diseases and other chronic multi-system illnesses.
http://www.csn-deutschland.de/blog/en/german-medical-association-warns-%e2%80%9cswine-flu-vaccine%e2%80%9d-unsuitable-for-patients-suffering-from-environmental-diseases-and-other-chronic-multi-system-illnesses/
____________________
42mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings;
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009 * Olm.alone.Jun10
|
RM
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jul 9th, 2009 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 83 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:11 |
|
Hiya joyful & kate,
Interesting- does this mean that in the immune suppressed that the flu virus lies dormant and in others then what is seen as flu symptoms is maybe in part immune reaction (fighting) the flu virus?
R
____________________
Sarcoidosis 30yrs ago/ then-shingles/chronic stress/depression/ibs/hypertension/CFS/Fybromyalgia. 13/07/09 reducing D.09/09/09benicar 40mg/6hr.22/10/09 mino 100mg/48hr.
|
RM
Member
| Joined: | Thu Jul 9th, 2009 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 83 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 05:21 |
|
eClaire wrote: A friend sent these to me:
Possible deaths from H1N1 vaccine reported in Sweden
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/281228
The German Medical Association is now warning that the Swine flu vaccine is "unsuitable" for patients suffering from environmental diseases and other chronic multi-system illnesses.
http://www.csn-deutschland.de/blog/en/german-medical-association-warns-%e2%80%9cswine-flu-vaccine%e2%80%9d-unsuitable-for-patients-suffering-from-environmental-diseases-and-other-chronic-multi-system-illnesses/
Hiya claire,
Good info there.
I see it mentions Squalene is contained in olive oil. I use olive oil instead of veg/sunflower oil in cooking. I wonder is that harmful?
R
____________________
Sarcoidosis 30yrs ago/ then-shingles/chronic stress/depression/ibs/hypertension/CFS/Fybromyalgia. 13/07/09 reducing D.09/09/09benicar 40mg/6hr.22/10/09 mino 100mg/48hr.
|
katezzz
Member
|
Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 15:03 |
|
Hiya Claire, Joyful, Lisa and RM,
Interesting that they found 30-50 viruses living in CFS patients.
But what I still don't understand is why a virus such as H1N1 will be lethal sometimes but not always. Do the immune systems of some people mount an overaggressive response, like the anthrax victims who were treated with antibiotics and then died from too-much-too-fast IP?
Science knows that viruses can lie dormant in the body and periodically reactivate, like the herpes simplex virus, in its various forms. In relatively healthy people, a normal flu virus will be dealt with by the immune system and eliminated. How can a lethal flu virus simply join a community of bacteria?
kate
____________________
RA since 1988; AP since 1993; MP Nov. 2008; Phase 2:
Was up to Zith 62, stopped b/c strong IP. Benicar q6, Tylenol prn| 25D: May 09: D=14, Dec 09: D=10, June 10: D=12 http://www.curemyth1.org/forum7/2509.html
|
eClaire
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 377 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 15:56 |
|
Kate,
I've been thinking the same about lethal reactions to a virus, and my guess is that the person has enough immune function to mount a vicious attack but is also already well on the way to becoming ill (probably has an recognized or undiagnosed or yet to be discovered illness). I think that person's body is then overwhelmed versus a very healthy person or a person whose immune function is so compromised that s/he does not mount much of a response. Just guessing here.
RM,
Perhaps squalene injected is treated differently than squalene that is subject to the acids of the stomach. Don't know, just a thought. It would be interesting to find out more.
Claire
____________________
42mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings;
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009 * Olm.alone.Jun10
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | On Vacation |
| Posts: | 984 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 22:07 |
|
an online search for info on squalene yields... "However, the Food and Drug Administration has not authorized the use of such adjuvants in the United States.[8]"
"Based on other research, it is clear that whether squalene causes harm or not is related to selected conditions of concentration, dose, route of application, and other factors[15][16]."
Some researchers feel quite strongly that it has caused harm.
One article I read stated that
ingesting naturally occuring squalene (as in olive oil) is fine.
That eating foods with it does not have the same adverse affects that
injecting a manufactured form of the substance does.
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 22:08 by Joyful
____________________
MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
|
JoshR
Member
| Joined: | Mon Aug 18th, 2008 |
| Location: | NSW, Australia |
| Posts: | 445 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 16:27 |
|
katezzz wrote:
How can a lethal flu virus simply join a community of bacteria?
Remember that the Th1 microbiota knocks out the innate immune system. The adaptive immune system is probably still quite effective at taking out pathogens that are floating around in the bloodstream. All the action is taking place inside infected cells, except for the relatively rare occasions when the biofilm community jumps across to adjacent cells when the old one dies.
Joyful wrote:
"Based on other research, it is clear that whether squalene causes harm or not is related to selected conditions of concentration, dose, route of application, and other factors[15][16]."
You could replace "squalene" in that sentence with any other substance and it would still be true...
____________________
5/6 CFS criteria, 125D36 Ph1Jul08 Ph2Sep08 Ph3Feb09 25D8(Sep08) NoIRs covered up (except hands) low lux home minimal light exp r/t work
|
Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | On Vacation |
| Posts: | 984 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 00:03 |
|
Josh, that quote truly contains the typical "weasel words" found in most medical product's literature. 
____________________
MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
|
Current time is 13:50 | Page:   1 2 3   |
|
|
|
|
