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Mindy's questions (posting for Larry on MP)

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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 19:52

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Mindy, has Larry tried 20 mg Beni sublingual for this? Success with the subligual Beni would indicate IP. I get organ disturbance fairly often right now, especially when driving on long trips, as I am at about the maximum effects of max MCZ, and when I do have any such problems, a half tablet, or even, I find, a quarter tablet, which is more comfortable under my tongue, clears it up right away. Perhaps when you report things like this, you should let us know what Larry has tried already. Cynthia

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Ph1 10/08 Ph2 12/08 Ph3 6/09 125/25D 47/43 preMP 25D14 12/09 Calcium anomaly(gone?),Spondylitis,early Diverticulosis,early AMD,TypeII Diabetes(?) MyStory

Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 19:57

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Hi Mindy.

It sounds like this is a good time to review the article in the MP knowledge base on Managing immunopathology (IP).

The pain you are reporting indicates that Larry's body is not able to keep up with the pace of high immunopathology and needs to lower the IP/herx levels.

It's been about a month since you last checked in and I don't think you posted his medications history so I can offer any more specific information to help in your situation.

Other links: Pain, Diagnosing flank pain.

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mindy
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 20:40

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Cynthia,

Larry has not tried anything he did take some Aleve to see if that would work. I can tell him to take extra 20mg of Benicar under the tongue. Next time I will do better on posting info as to what he has tried. If he takes 20mg extra how long will he do that for until it helps? How do you schedule your benicar when you take extra, do you continue benicar every 6hrs as normal? I'll do my best at looking it up I just don't always have luck reading links, opening them is the problem.

Thank You,
Mindy

____________________
DX: Lung Sarc 12/06, avoiding D 9/08, Started Benicar Phase 1 10/08, Off Prednisone 11/08, Started Mino 12/08, Ph2 1/20/09, Ph3 8/17/09, 4/09 D 13.6, 8/09 D 16 Dec 09 D 12.0. Thank you Dr. Marshall & Team.

mindy
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 20:46

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Joyful,

I have been reading everything I can get into, I'm having problems opening up links. I have read the links except the manage IP can't get into it.

Larry started phase 3 Aug 17th 09 and currently he is taking Clindy 150, Mino 50 & Zith 31.25, he increased his Mino from 25 to 50 Nov 7th and noticed that day the pain that has lasted still today. Any info I'm lacking that you need to know please tell me.

Thank You,
Mindy

Correction he increased his Mino Nov 5th from 25mg to 50mg and then took it on Nov 7th at 50mg... Started having back pain Nov 7th. Sorry for the mix up on days.

Last edited on Mon Nov 9th, 2009 21:12 by mindy

Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 21:01

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If the sublingual is going to work, it should do so in about 10-20 minutes, and then repeat as needed. Reports I've seen say to treat the 2 methods of dosing Benicar as independent, so use the subligual as needed and don't change the regular dosing, unless a dosing change is otherwise called for. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Cynthia

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Ph1 10/08 Ph2 12/08 Ph3 6/09 125/25D 47/43 preMP 25D14 12/09 Calcium anomaly(gone?),Spondylitis,early Diverticulosis,early AMD,TypeII Diabetes(?) MyStory

mindy
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 21:09

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Cynthia,

I will be taking Larry some extra Benicar as he don't have his pill spliter with him. I was finally able to open up a link to taking extra benicar. I will tell Larry to keep taking his benicar every 6 hrs with 20mg as needed. Thank you for your help.

Joyful
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 00:56

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Mindy,

I'm sorry you are having trouble getting links to open.

Here is the direct link you can cut/paste if you need to: http://mpkb.org/doku.php/home:mp:managing_immunopathology

You can also navigate to the main page of the MP knowledge base here: http://mpkb.org and search the outline for the topics that you need.

Here is the first section from the article:

Patients' goal during the MP should be to maintain tolerable immunopathology (also known as “herx” or the “Herxheimer reaction”) as they get well. In cases where IP is becoming intolerable, certain strategies are available including:

Take lower doses of antibiotics

immunopathologyA temporary increase in disease symptoms experienced by Marshall Protocol patients that results from the release of cytokines and endotoxins as disease-causing bacteria are killed.

getting worse

Adjust olmesartan (Benicar)

olmesartanMedication taken regularly by patients on the Marshall Protocol for its ability to activate the Vitamin D Receptor. Also known by the trade name Benicar.

More frequent minocycline

minocyclineBacteriostatic antibiotic used by Marshall Protocol patients.

Take palliative medications

Note that three forms of IP are particularly life-threatening and should be handled with an abundance of caution: cardiac immunopathology, neurological immunopathology, and respiratory immunopathology. Patients who are concerned about any of these or other symptoms should not hesitate to call their physician.

The very first thing to look at is lowering antibiotics. The simplest thing would be to lower the Mino back down. Also, Larry can try taking the minocycline every 24 hours for a few days, just to give his body a short break.

As the implications of the fact the awakened immune system is producing the most effective antimicrobial activity slowly sink in, we have come to the realization that it is never of any benefit to push the dosing of the antibiotics past a very tolerable level of IP/herx.

So, if the IP symptoms are significant, ramping is never recommended. And the guidelines no longer state the maximum dosages are to be reached by all on the protocol.

:cool:

The fastest recovery is a gentle recovery. :cool:

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Chris
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 04:27

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Mindy,

In addition to the medication alterations, one that that helped with my back pains was to be sure to drink a lot of water. It helps flush things through. A hot pad worked better yet, but that's hard to do at work.

Chris

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mindy
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 04:45

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Thank you everyone for your information!! Joyful thank you so much for getting me the info that I was unable to open, I'm not sure if it's my internet company or a setting on my computer but for the last few wks I can't open a darn thing. Larry reports his back feels better he did take 20mg of Benicar says he don't know if it worked or not but it's not nearly as painful as before. He is going to cut back down to 25mg Mino and then ramp it later on. I take this as a good sign bugs are being killed just want we wanted!! Again thank you everyone!

Mindy

Joyful
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 07:53

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Chris,

The extra water and heating pad suggestions are very good ones. I use both as needed, but didn't think to offer them here. I guess there should be a place to add them to our Managing IP article...

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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 18:06

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Pill cutter? Sure, I use one all the time, but think outside the box. If you want a chunk and only have a full pill, munch a chunk off the pill. When you need it, you need it. I find I can break the Olmecip pills in half by hand too. Cynthia

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Ph1 10/08 Ph2 12/08 Ph3 6/09 125/25D 47/43 preMP 25D14 12/09 Calcium anomaly(gone?),Spondylitis,early Diverticulosis,early AMD,TypeII Diabetes(?) MyStory

mindy
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Posted: Wed Dec 9th, 2009 21:35

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Just wanted to report that Larry's 1,25 D is 12.0 & the doctor is happy, we are too!!

Larry is doing well and has had back pain when he ramps his Mino but by the next

does it's fine as he reports. Merry Christmas!

Mindy

mindy
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Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 01:37

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Hello,

Need some help, Larry is suffering from a cold states that his ears are full, nose is raw, sore from coughing and he's cold but burning up anything he can take like Benadryl or Actifed... My computer is on the poops and I'm on a loaner that doesn't have my saved info or I would look the info up myself.

Thank You,
Mindy

P.S. would extra 20mg of Benicar hurt??? I have been searching and searching but not really getting the info I'm looking for...

Last edited on Wed Jan 6th, 2010 03:13 by mindy

Chris
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Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 03:17

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Since flu/cold symptoms are driven by the immune system, not the bug, an extra 20mg of benicar could help.

I just worked through a cold, and found that guaifensin was better than the antihistamines, but be sure to drink a lot with it.

Chris

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mindy
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Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 03:22

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This is probably a silly question but where do I get guaifensin??? I have never heard of it but for now since it's late will benadryl be ok? Thank you so much for replying back to me!!!

Chris
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Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 03:47

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Guaifenesin is sold in pill form as Mucinex everywhere, it's over the counter.

Or as a liquid as Robitussin, Breonesin, Siltussin, or generics like Wal-tussin at Walmart. But be sure to get the 'chest congestion/expectorant' mix only, you don't want the versions that have multiple ingredients.

Guaifenesin promotes fluid/mucus flow. The anti-histamines dry it up. They have opposite effects. The guaifenesin is listed as a general palliative for the MP, so it has moderating effects beyond just easier mucus flow.

The liquid form is for about 4 hours. The pills come in 6-8 hour and, 12-hour timed release forms.

I guess you use what you have, and hit the drug store in the AM.

Chris

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mindy
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Posted: Wed Jan 6th, 2010 03:58

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Thank you so very much Chris, I'll be on my to WalMart first thing in the am...

mindy
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Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 04:43

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Hello everyone,

Needing some help here, Larry just told me today that ever since he caught a head

cold that his chest is tight and his lungs fill shriveled up. He caught the cold the

middle of last month I do believe. Before catching the cold he had ZERO problems

and believe also that he lost weight from 176 to 172 I can't recall for sure but I think

we was at 172 last dr appt but I could be wrong. Weight loss, tight chest is a sign of

sarc so is it returning in full force from the cold? Is his immiune system not working?

What is with the shriveled up feeling will it go away? Has he done something wrong

with his meds? Should he start back to phase 1? He also reported that he ate a few

things chicken nuggets and tator tots the other night which he had before and

reported he felt he was going to be sick and then today when he ate a pbj. In my

opinion Larry doesn't eat right anyway to even maintain weight so I hope that's it

and not the sarc. Just when things were looking up and they still are and will

because I have faith in the Lord that he will get Larry through this it's just a bummer

to hear he feels like this and we don't know if it's sarc or what? I sure hope it's not.

Anyway to recap Larry has a tight chest but I should note it's not like it was when he

first was dx with sarc so I hope that's good, he has been like this since he caught

the cold and he was winded but not feeling that anymore as we walked the grocery

store tonight and then feeling his lungs are shriveled. He is on Benicar 40mg every 6hrs,

Mino 100, Zith 125 and Clindy 150 I hope I have those right without looking at his pill

bottles. Any help from anyone would be great, I pray for all good news

and that these feelings are normal.

Thanks,
Mindy

freddie ash
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Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 13:35

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HI MINDY

This is Fred in WV. I am not a doctor or a modator, just a member in phase 3. I have been doing the Marshall Protocol for almost 5 years. I have had a lot of IPs during that time.

I do believe that your husband is just going thru a very hard IP from killing the bactiera. I do not know old a person he is but I am 70 and had a very high bactiea load. I was told that when I started the Marshall Protocol I would have these IPs as I killed the bactiera. So I figured it would take me long than most that were doing the MP.

The cold is nothing but a killing of the bactiera so it is I believe an IP. It will give you a very runny nose, sinus drainage down into you chest.

The lungs feeling shriveled up may because the lungs filling from the sinus drainage. He should try to to some breathing exercises when he can. I do some every day to keep my lungs open and working well.

The weight loss I believe is just the killing of the bactiera. There is a site here that talkes about some bactier make you thin and some make you fat. My weight was about 155 before the I started the Marshall Protocol and it has went up and down. It has been up to 160 down to 146. You may have to set down with him and talk about what he can eat and make a list to get enough to hold the weight in check. I do not think this is the sarcoidosis coming back but the killing of the bactiera. Dr Marshall once said if we killed all the bactiea in our body we would maybe loss 20 pounds of weight.

So in summary I think he is just having very hard IPs going on killing the bactiera and not the sarcoidosis coming back. Also some of the modorators may tell you about adjusting some of his meds to ease some of the IPs.

Please let us know how thing go. If you have any questins let me known.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie

mindy
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Posted: Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 14:01

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Thank you Freddie for your time in responding! Larry is 33 soon to be 34 in April and I

will set with him on eating the right foods even though he knows but I will recap with

him! I have to admit what he said made scared me but I just know everything is

going to be alright it just has to be. Your right about the cold he has a lot of sinus

drainage which makes him have coughing fits but compared to how he was before

MP in regards to coughing its a lot better as in he can go a long time with out

coughing. He is also very sluggish so I hope that someone will respond back in

regards to the meds on rather he should go down or stay put. I told him maybe he

should back down or possibly start over again. I will share with him your info and

again thank you so much for all your info it is greatly appreciated!

Mindy

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