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Chanippo
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| Location: | Sydney, Australia |
| Posts: | 67 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 04:12 |
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Hi group,
I'm just wondering if marijuana/cannabis use is specifically contraindicated on this program? I have read that it can act as an immunosuppressant.
Thanks
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Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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natalie17
Moderator
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 05:05 |
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Hi Chanippo,
I have also read it's immunosuppressive, however Dr. Trevor Marshall recently said;
We have had one or two using cannabis, which apparently did not slow their progress.
And in 2006, said;
We have seen no evidence that the use of medicinal marijuana slows progress on the MP. There is one patient who has been prescribed medicinal marijuana and she has been progressing well. However, it is up to your doctor to assess the risks of any medication, especially in situations like this.
If you are going to use it, I would suggest only using it for intolerable symptoms and watching out for any interactions. Also, obviously make sure your Doctor is well aware you are using it.
Also suggest taking a look at -
Why do I have to stop my alternative treatment and avoid most supplements?
You may also be able to control your symptoms in other ways. See;
PAIN CONTROL
Nausea What should I do for my stomach problem?
I guess it all depends why it's being used.
Take care,
Natalie
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I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.| ABCofMP|My Story
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Chanippo
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 5th, 2008 |
| Location: | Sydney, Australia |
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 09:39 |
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Hi group,
Is there a link anywhere for specific recipe's or idea's for breakfast? If not, could others post what they eat? I've been on a strict candida diet for 8 months and have been eating bacon and eggs very regularly, but now I can't eat either i'd like to get some ideas about what others eat.
This diet seems fairly open to interpretation. So long as we are avoiding all the foods on the list, are we right to experiment and see what we can tolerate? Is there a list of vegetables that we should avoid? I have read all that is available, but all the bad veggies don't seem to be listed. I.e. carrots aren't mentioned in the list, but elsewhere it is suggested they should be avoided.
Also, part of my candida diet is cosuming large quantities of good fats (butter, coconut oil, olive oil, etc). Will it be ok to continue this? Coconut oil reportedly has natural antibacterial and antifungal properties, would this interfere with the protocol?
Thanks,
Matt
Last edited on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 11:13 by Chanippo
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 09:43 |
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Hi group,
I normally work in a 24/7 office environment. I'm currently not working, but may be able to return to work nights only. Since I am supposed to be avoiding all light and our circadian rythm's are set by the sun, this seems to be a good option. Would you recommend this? In the past I haven't coped well with shift-work, but that was probably due to the ever-changing shifts and not being able to get a regular routine, as well as long-standing insomnia and general fatigue. This time around, due to my illness, I will be able to work set shifts.
Thanks,
Matt
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 11:30 |
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Another question...
I've stopped all D supplements and foods for two days now and the debilitating fatigue and brain fog i've had almost constantly for the past two months has lifted notably already. Could this be considered some kind of confirmation this program wil work for me? I had my D blood tests done a few days ago and haven't got the results yet.
Thanks
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Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chris
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 01:13 |
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On the foods-to-avoid page, I found this:
"Member reported Herx reaction to coconut oil: Coconut Oil is listed as having antiviral, antibacterial, and antiprotozoal functions .. which would make it contraindicated on MP."
You do have to be careful about anything reputed to have an effect on the immune system, either to excite it or suppress it.
I can't answer about working night shift. We each do what we have to do to stay out of the light. There's a chance that the insomnia will be improved by the benicar alone, which will help no matter what shift you work.
I would think the fog lifting might be a good indication. You haven't indicated any symptoms or diagnosis, so it's a blind guess on my part. It could just be a temporary psychological lift from the possibility of the MP curing whatever ails you. However, I would also think that a healthy person doesn't see much change in attitude from just not eating eggs. There's not always a smooth path here, as there are a lot of hormonal shifts going on when vitamin-D levels drop. And what happens of course depends a lot on what the starting point was, which you do not know yet.
As for breakfast, all I need these days is a slice of wheat toast and peanut butter. Pre-MP, I needed a lot more, like 2 eggs and sausage on a kaiser roll. I never did find a happy medium, but did drop the eggs and go to a whole wheat + sausage breakfast for a while. It wasn't ideal, but it had enough protein and fat to get me to lunch. When I think of breakfast, I still think of the day after Thanksgiving, which I now call 'National Pie for Breakfast Day'.
Maybe some of the others were more inventive on the breakfast front. I'm still pining for my IHOP breakfast days.
This is all a digression anyway (if I can't eat pancakes and eggs, I can at least reminisce? right?). The next link more directly talks about your candida problem:
Will the Marshall Protocol treat co-infections? - Fungal Infections
You should read all the FAQs. This one is important. The MP doesn't treat everything, though it does treat a lot of conditions.
Is the MP an Applicable Treatment for my Disease?
This one is important, as it gives you a list of things that can show up as herx, and that will resolve. You will likely encounter some of these unexpectedly, if you do the MP, and it's best to have the list in mind so you can note the unexpected as herx and as progress. And, it keeps you from freaking out when the strange ones happen.
Hypervitaminosis-D Symptoms
--Chris
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sarcoid since 1983 (or much earlier), MP since summer 2004 Chris' story
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 01:39 |
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I guess I should have started with a list of symptoms:
-Debilitating fatigue for the past two months, but started 12 months ago and comes and goes; prior to that I often was very tired and had low energy;
-Almost constant, at times severe brain fog for some 5-6 years. Also have chronic tension headache and sinus congestion/pain;
-Chronic gastrointestinal distress, first starting 10 years ago, but really started going down hill 5-6 years ago. Sx include stomach bloating, abdominal bloating, wind, reflux/heartburn, indigestion, soft, watery, poorly formed stool with undigested food in it;
-Chronic insomnia for 5-6 years, but starting as a teenager;
-I have also observed some difficulties with speech on occasion - not being able to find my words, stammering, etc; I also have other cognitive difficulties at times, and lately this includes impaired memory function, concentration difficulties, motivation, etc.
-Some depression and anxiety, although the depression has been more prominent. I would probably describe it as disthymia;
-I have also noticed some autistic tendencies in that I prefer not to speak to most people and can become obsessed with fantasies;
-As a baby/child I had some issues with hyperactivity, and chronic infections including tonsilitis, bronchitis, ear infections, etc and was fed many, many courses of broad-spectrum antibiotics;
-As a child I also used to have this strange neurological symptom where I would occasionally go blind in one eye (either) for 10-15 minutes. I had numerous CT scans and tests but nothing was ever identified;
I think that's about it. For the past two months I have been unable to work due to debilitating fatigue. I am diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome and meet criteria for IBS too. When I began reducing vit D supplements and foods, my energy levels improved on day one, and I have been sleeping a lot better. I'm not reading too much into this as these symptoms have changed off and on ever since I began the anti-candida diet, but it was still a noticable change. I feel different today too. It's like I have this strange numbness in my whole body, my muscles are aching, sore and tight, and I feel very heavy. It's different to the fatigue of late, though.
Chris, I thought bread was one of the no-no's due to the high carb load. So is it ok to eat whole-wheat bread? It would be really handy if we could have a more definitive list of things we can and can't eat.
Thanks for your reply Chris.
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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natalie17
Moderator
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 02:27 |
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Hi Matt,
I assume you've seen the following, but incase you haven't -
FOODS TO AVOID
Vitamin D, folic acid, refined sugars, excess carbohydrates, aspartame, MSG, Tartrazine
FOOD TIPS has Helpful hints, Links & testimonials re >
Dairy Products
Carbohydrates
Breads, pasta, cereal, etc.
Oils
Proteins
Eat real food
.... there are options  .
You might also like to see these discussions from http://www.mp-lifestyles.org;
What you ate for your meals - members discuss what they eat.
No Vit. D items - members reccommend MP-friendly foods.
Being a vegetarian on the MP - meat-free meal ideas & discussion.
Personally, I found it easier to go through what I do usually eat day to day and figure out what I had to either stop eating or substitute/change. For example, I've always had toast for breakfast, but I had to change the bread I eat.
You might also like to see;
CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME and Th1 inflammation: includes links to individual Member experiences of improving Health
Hope this helps,
Natalie
____________________
I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.| ABCofMP|My Story
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 03:04 |
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Thanks Natalie, that's great. I hadn't found a number of those links so that helps a lot. I've been on a strict anti-candida diet for the last 8 months, avoiding all forms of sugar, high carb foods includin fruits, potatoes etc, nuts/grains/seeds, alcohol, etc, so in some ways I have a head-start, except for the high vitamin D intake. I'm really just struggling with breakfast as i've been living on bacon and eggs, but i've got a few more suggestions now. I'm eager to try out some toast with allowable bread, it's been ages since i've eaten that!
Cheers
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 03:25 |
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| Why do we need to avoid bacon? Is it purely the high fat content?
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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natalie17
Moderator
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 03:29 |
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In FOODS TO AVOID it states -
Foods Naturally High in Vitamin D to Avoid
- bacon
____________________
I can help you understand the recovery process, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care.| ABCofMP|My Story
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 03:32 |
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| But pork isn't on the list, and since they are from the same animal i'm wondering why bacon has more vit D than pork. Any ideas? I love my bacon!!
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 04:09 |
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Another question....
As i've said, i've been on an anti-candida diet for 8 months and during this time i've been having consistent herx reactions in response to various antifungal agents including coconut oil, butter, and especially garlic. The reactions include nausea, bloating, increased brain fog, fatigue, diarrhea, sweating, etc. I feel the program has been working, but i'm not convinved it would have cured me. Would this be a sign of my likely response to the MP?
Thaks for all your help.
Matt
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Julia
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 15:08 |
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Matt, have you read Candidiasis? The MP will deal with the cause of your problems. Meanwhile, use whatever diet keeps you most comfortable, but strictly omitting all vitamin D. (Re bacon: sometimes it's hard to find exactly how much D is in a product, but the list we use has proved very successful to our members, so probably best to stick with it.)
The reactions you've been having to foods are not herx, which is caused by the toxins released by dying bacteria. Immunopathology Tutorial
Julia 
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Sarc/uveitis/hypercalcaemia/ankle osteoarthritis/eczema. MP May04. 25D Apr09:5.6. Life is good!Julia's story
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 21:38 |
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| It's just i've been led to believe that coconut oil and butter are antifungal, antibacterial etc due to the lauric acid contained in them. Garlic is also antifungal, antibacterial etc due to the sulfur contained in it. So consuming these products should cause some "die-off" or herx reactions when they come into contact with yeast or bacteria etc, and my experience attests to this.
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chanippo
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 21:48 |
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Seems i'm asking too many questions lately! Sorry, i'm new to this and am very hopeful.
I wondered - how many people are in the study site cohort? I'm curious to see how many others are trying this MP.
Thanks,
Matt
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Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Julia
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 22:38 |
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Where can I find statistics about the Marshall Protocol?
Coconut oil
Why do I have to stop my alternative treatment and avoid most supplements?
Your questions are welcome when you can't find the info you need by using the search facilities on the MP site + see the ABC of MP
CELL WALL DEFICIENT BACTERIA AND THE MARSHALL PROTOCOL
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Sarc/uveitis/hypercalcaemia/ankle osteoarthritis/eczema. MP May04. 25D Apr09:5.6. Life is good!Julia's story
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Chanippo
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 00:04 |
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I am now into day 5 of the MP, this far only avoiding the sun and vit D supplements and foods. I haven't got my sungasses yet. Some of the neurological symptoms of fatigue, brain fog etc have eased significantly, but last night I was very sick. It felt like food poisoning in that I was vomiting every 1-2 hours for most of the night. I ate some lamb at lunch that may have been suspect, but I only cooked it and had it two days prior and didn't have the same reaction.
Is this something that could have been herx? Would it be likely to get such an extreme reaction before starting the meds, just from reducing vit D and sun exposure?
Thanks in advance...
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Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Chanippo
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 07:56 |
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I should aso mention that I have been experiencing mild ful symptoms - mild fever, aches and pains in muscles and joints, etc. It's not a full-blown flu though and is similar to the flu symptoms I experienced on the anti-candida program. So it seems to me this is herx. I believe anti-candida programs work to a point, and believe I am very familiar with herx reactions. As i've mentioned previously, the fatigue and other neurological symptoms have improved greatly.
I guess i'm just seeking some clarification about my symptoms. I havent heard of anyone experiencing such severe herx at the very beginning of the program, prior to taking meds. Although I have read of some herxing, it is usually milder - such as feeling better.
Am I asking questions the right way, or asking too many? It's just that a number of them haven't been answered. I guess in doing this program I would like access to some support when my herx gets too severe, just for reassurance if nothing else. Reading helps and i've already devoured much of the info, but connecting with people who have gone through this already would be beneficial.
Cheers,
Matt
____________________
Brain dysfunction, insomnia, depression. D-tests 5Sep08 - 25D = 28.8 ng/ml, 1,25D = 43.33 pg/ml (delay of up to 3 hours before freezing). Ph1 Sep08. NoIR's, blinds drawn in house, very minimal sun exp. D re-test 5NOV08 = 21.2ngml. D re-test 28FEB08 14.4ng
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Julia
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 22:08 |
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Matt, your questions are fine, but we're a small band of volunteers with busy lives, so please be patient if we don't immediately answer. If we miss something, do ask again. Which questions have we not answered?
Some people feel better on reducing D, some get uncomfortable herx. Should I wear NoIRs, avoid natural light exposure and eliminate vitamin D before starting Benicar? Your reaction seems to be a clear signal that the MP is the right way to go
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Sarc/uveitis/hypercalcaemia/ankle osteoarthritis/eczema. MP May04. 25D Apr09:5.6. Life is good!Julia's story
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