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danhaych
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 08:57 |
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| Hi, could you direct me to your proof that 25 vitamin D inactivates the VDR receptor in levels over what you state please.
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Nick B.
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 09:12 |
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Dan
have you read any of the papers by Dr Marshall ?
what country are you from ?
Nick
Last edited on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 10:07 by Nick B.
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Olmecip 20mg q4h [P1:started 28 July 11] antibiotics started 14 Aug 2011. Changed to 4 hourly dosing on 31 Oct 2011. | GERD | heartburn | rhinitis | irritable bowel syndrome | running nose | latest results 25D = 9.2 ng/ml June 2012.
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danhaych
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 09:35 |
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Im in Australia. I've read a lot on this subject so far, i currently have 15 browser windows open and am rather confused. From my studies everything on the page you open to "about the marshall protocol" is true to my knowledge except the claim about 25 vit D inactivating VDR receptors. see below
Recent molecular modeling research (which has been confirmed by a large amount of clinical data) has shown that levels of 25-D over 20 ng/ml can bind and inactivate the VDR, which subsequently shuts down the innate immune system.
I have tried searching for proof of this but cant find anything
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Nick B.
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 09:59 |
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Dan
Look here, under presentations or in the papers.
http://mpkb.org/home/publications
sorry i cant be more helpful.
what is your illnesss / symbtoms ?
Nick
Last edited on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 09:59 by Nick B.
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Olmecip 20mg q4h [P1:started 28 July 11] antibiotics started 14 Aug 2011. Changed to 4 hourly dosing on 31 Oct 2011. | GERD | heartburn | rhinitis | irritable bowel syndrome | running nose | latest results 25D = 9.2 ng/ml June 2012.
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Nick B.
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 10:17 |
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this paper might help:
http://trevormarshall.com/BioEssays-Feb08-Marshall-Preprint.pdf
Nick
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Olmecip 20mg q4h [P1:started 28 July 11] antibiotics started 14 Aug 2011. Changed to 4 hourly dosing on 31 Oct 2011. | GERD | heartburn | rhinitis | irritable bowel syndrome | running nose | latest results 25D = 9.2 ng/ml June 2012.
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danhaych
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 11:11 |
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Its a very interesting read. It's for an assignment I have to do on chronic fatigue syndrome. I'm studying natural medicine and the assignment is part of my nutrition curriculum.
Am I right in assuming the main problem is the accumulation of the "biofilm"? I was introduced to this area just this week in my herbal medicine lecture. In the absence of the biofilm problem and th1 pathogen, the body should naturally regulate the conversion of the types of vitamin D and also allow the innate immune system to operate properly? Am I understanding this correctly?
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Nick B.
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 11:29 |
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No the real problem is the microbiome.
see this presentation:
http://mpkb.org/home/publications/marshall_ica2012
must go.
happy reading.
Nick
____________________
Olmecip 20mg q4h [P1:started 28 July 11] antibiotics started 14 Aug 2011. Changed to 4 hourly dosing on 31 Oct 2011. | GERD | heartburn | rhinitis | irritable bowel syndrome | running nose | latest results 25D = 9.2 ng/ml June 2012.
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danhaych
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 11:31 |
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Something confusing is on the marshall protocol site it says:
Recent molecular modeling research (which has been confirmed by a large amount of clinical data) has shown that levels of 25-D over 20 ng/ml can bind and inactivate the VDR
However one of Trevors papers says the opposite:
We first studied the VDR nuclear receptor, which is activated by the secosteroid hormone 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin-D
http://www.tbiomed.com/content/3/1/1
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 16:29 |
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1,25D is hormone D, 25D is not. The body must hydroxylate 25D to make it into the hormone 1,25D. Yes, in a properly functioning body, hormones are very tightly controlled, including 1,25D. And why anyone would expect that taking more supplement D
or getting more sun would change things, I have no idea. Every one on the MP that has had there 1,25D checked after starting the MP, and with very low levels of 25D in their blood, has always had pretty normal 1,25D levels.
For your work relative to nutrition, you should know that there is a mouse study where knockout mice were bred without the ability to produce the chemical required to bind to 25D to allow it to circulate in the blood. These mice, without that chemical, have zero 25D circulating in their blood, but are perfectly normal in every other respect and live out their normal life spans. I think it can be concluded from this, that at least in mice, 25D in the blood is not necessary, and each cell is perfectly capable of converting cholesterol directly to 1,25D. If mice are doing it, seems no reason to expect that humans can't do that too. Don't have time now, but later this evening I'll try to find the paper on the knockout mice for you and what that chemical is (DBP?). If this is true in humans too, vitamin D is not a vitamin.
Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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Sallie Q
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 20:39 |
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Cynthi was rushing out, I'm tottering in with a cup of coffee still too hot to help 
one thing Cynthia did not have time to elaborate on......If D1,25 (the active metabolite) is properly measured,
(difficult and expensive so we do it here in Oz, others may find it too hard to get) then a very clear indication of VDR dysregulation is high 1,25 D, stockpiled in the body because excessive D from vitamin supplementation (I do not think we are yet in a position to guess, but perhaps in the presence of microbial ligands) has helped to block (antagonize) the receptor to the extent immunity is almost in total collapse .........and so is the patient 
1,25 D is the VDR antagonist
25 D is the VDR agonist
if the patient (and VDR) is healthy, they work together to keep that homeostasis
Now I';; drink the coffee, come back late and see if what I wrote makes sense
I admire your ability to get into this, it took me months to 'get it'
Sallie
Correction,
1,25 D is the VDR agonist
25 D is the VDR antagonist
Cynthia
Last edited on Mon Sep 24th, 2012 00:34 by
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danhaych
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 09:14 |
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Who was the person/group that proved/theorised that 25-D inactivates the VDR? I have tried a google scholar search but all the results in that area come back with studies that involve Trevor Marshall. Was Trevor the person that discovered it? I cant seem to find a study where it says "25-D inactivates the VDR" apart from on the bacteriality site section "about the Marshall Protocol" but the claim isn't referenced directly after the the quote so I have no way of finding the study that showed it.
Please forgive me this is all very difficult to piece together. If I am to do my assignment with this new information that contradicts current knowledge I need to be able to back it up with solid references.
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Nick B.
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 09:26 |
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Dan
Here is a link to Dr Marshalls papers going back to 1983. The answer to your question is likely to be in here. 
http://www.trevormarshall.com/papers.htm
One of the moderators may be able to help further.
Nick B
____________________
Olmecip 20mg q4h [P1:started 28 July 11] antibiotics started 14 Aug 2011. Changed to 4 hourly dosing on 31 Oct 2011. | GERD | heartburn | rhinitis | irritable bowel syndrome | running nose | latest results 25D = 9.2 ng/ml June 2012.
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danhaych
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 12:46 |
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Is there a doctor in my area that knows anything about all this? I would like to get my 1,25 tested according to your methods and possibly get help in understanding this more, I still cant find proof of the inactivation of the VDR and 25 D relationship in the studies I have read so far. Twice when I think I am reading something that is heading in the right direction I have been blocked by a reference stating "UNPUBLISHED" so I have been unable to get to the original study that mentions the theory.
I was diagnosed with depression a year ago and I rather feel quite screwed up mentally lol so it would be interesting to see my levels as I have a rather healthy diet, I avoid dairy, gluten, excess sugar, but I regularly partake in sun exposure midday a few days a week with the sole purpose of generating vitamin D for it's "currently" thought of benefits and despite all my efforts to try and "heal" my problems I feel I am getting worse. I do also suffer from one other problem listed in the list of treatable diseases from the MP, also my brother has severe OCD, depression and anxiety. So something is running in the family...
I am in Morayfield, Brisbane, QLD, AustraliaLast edited on Mon Sep 24th, 2012 14:01 by danhaych
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Dr Trevor Marshall
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 13:44 |
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danhaych wrote: Who was the person/group that proved/theorised that 25-D inactivates the VDR? I have tried a google scholar search but all the results in that area come back with studies that involve Trevor Marshall. Was Trevor the person that discovered it? I cant seem to find a study where it says "25-D inactivates the VDR"
Yes, I made that discovery. In-silico, and validated in-vivo in our observational cohort.
But the Canadian MS study group initiated by Prof Reinhold Vieth, after initially praising Vitamin D therapy in MS, ultimately found it was just acting as an immunosuppressive. Here is the paper admitting that:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417163/
I used the word "admitting" as the paper really doesn't attempt to "explain" anything, being couched in so many complex words and concepts. It is hard to get a large group of authors to agree that a breakthrough has occurred which they didn't expect None of their early, optimistic, clinical papers have been retracted
You can see my presentation at the Vitamin D summit. Just about every expert in the field was there (Prof Vieth's comments at the very end of the tape about my in-silico tools). Except for those 'experts' who did not want to subject their hypotheses to expert scrutiny, of course
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO-f0cqnz-4
Gotta leave for Moscow now, sorry I can't keep an eye on the topic...
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danhaych
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 14:54 |
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Surprised to get a reply from you Trevor
I couldn't understand most of that study. Is there a written version of that video? My download limit is small so watching the youtube video isn't an option.
How do I find a doctor in my area that understands the MP?
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Sallie Q
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 20:03 |
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good morning Dan
instructions in topic pinned at start of .>Ask your questions Here
bad news, up to you.....
to teach your doctor to understand,
or if not willing to study what you have,
convince that you will take responsibility if you can get the Olmesartan to become part of the Research Study on MPSS
good news
you are going well with the intellectual preparation
Sallie
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Sep 24th, 2012 22:11 |
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Here is the link for asking for the list of doctors in your area.
Requesting a list of area doctors (please click here)
I don't see a transcript for the talk at the Scottish summit on MS, but I think what you should be looking at this the talk by Dr. Marshall before the FDA (Visiting Professor Lecture Series, organized by the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, a division of the FDA)
http://mpkb.org/home/publications/marshall_fda_cder_2006
Note in the first paragraph there is a link to both the video, and a transcript with slides. If you are going to look at a transcript, you will want to see the one with the slides.
Can't find the actual paper I referred to in my previous post, just references to the facts in the paper. Tried googling, but there are too many other uses of the letters DBP.
Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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danhaych
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Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 01:03 |
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| So on a side note, how would one explain the increased incidence of rickets in school children being forced to "slip, slop, slap". Or osteoporosis. It's said it's partly from a Vitamin D deficiency, not enough sunlight. If these kids are avoiding sunlight why do they have rickets if it's not a deficiency thats causing it?
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Sallie Q
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Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 02:07 |
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Dan, no-one says there is no deficiency*
MP says there is no deficiency in 'vitamin' D
http://mpkb.org/home/diseases/rickets
* There is a demonstrable deficiency in phosphorous and/or calcium
Children being forced to "slip, slop, slap" are possibly forced/allowed to mcfeast on yuckyfied chicken or hot chips,
and some parents may still be giving lollies as a 'reward'#
# another no go area mug punters no go to research and find what is better bet
MORAL
never take give or take vitamin tablets
taking mineral supplements may be necessary for those who have problems with diet or digestion
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danhaych
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Posted: Tue Sep 25th, 2012 02:42 |
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| but that is what we are being taught in my studies. That there is an increase in the number of children showing signs of rickets DESPITE the high intake of "dairy" products because of the notion that calcium is what will prevent rickets and osteoporosis. We are told that it's the lack of vitamin D because of slip slop slap and also dairy is poor in magnesium, vitamin D and I think phosphorus was mentioned there also, which is whats causing the increase in rickets cases even though dairy is a staple in peoples diets. Also as dairy is high in protein, sugar and fat, after being metabolised it is an acidic product causing the body to leach calcium from the bones to neutralise the acidic environment leading to rickets and osteoporosis. I'm not saying that my lecturers are lying just that obviously wide spread knowledge of what you talk about doesn't exist yet if you know what I mean.
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