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nate99
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Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2012 15:58 |
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Hello,
Similar to the user named Alpha, I am a sufferer of Post Finasteride Syndrome.
I am a 30 year old male who suffered from hairloss starting when I was quite young. I took finasteride for several years, which gave me sexual side effects. Several times I quit, but I always recovered to my normal state after a few months. Once my hairloss started to progress even further, I switched to a more powerful medication called dutasteride, that is closely related to finasteride. I added it to my shampoo thinking that it wouldn't effect the rest of my body. Of course, I ended up feeling sexual side effects again, however, my obsession, vanity, and desperation made me continue this treatment sporadically until 3 years ago.
I finally quit. Within the first year of quitting, I started losing weight and feeling better overall. Towards the end of the first year, I had a horrible food poisoning in China, where i was living at the time. The doctors prescribed me very strong antibiotics (don't know the name) that continued to hurt my stomach and two nights of IV treatment. I'm not sure if this is related at all to anything, but I had never had this treatment before.
Within the second year, my overall feelings of well being started to fluctuate. I would feel great for about a week, and then start to feel bad for a few days. Now in my third year, I mostly feel pretty negative almost all of the time.
My symptoms that were not present in the first year but are almost always present now:
-Lack of deep sleep
-Dull ache in the prostate/pelvis area
-Brain fog, difficulty remembering things, whereas before, my memory was very sharp
-I don't feel many emotions anymore, not to the same degree as before
-Generally feeling fat and doughy
-Inability to gain much muscle and lose weight at all, particularly around the stomach region
-Itchiness sometimes all around, sometimes in my nipples, maybe a reaction to foods?
-Less energy
-Soreness in my right knee
-Twitching, not localized to one body part, and especially as I am falling asleep
-Feeling sick or infected, but unable to get a fever
-Weak urine stream, like it is blocked
-Mostly liquid stool
-Constant gassy feeling, bloated, burping all the time, even up to 5 hours after a meal
-No morning erections
-Clear watery semen or dark yellow watery semen
-Not much feeling of arousal
-Soft erections
-Not much feeling during sex
-Sporadically, I have weeks where I have poor blood flow to hands and feet (they keep falling asleep, or i can hold my hands up and feel blood quickly draining from them)
-Freezing cold hands and feet
-Yellow hands and feet
-When I stand up too fast, I get dizzy
-Overall lack of connection between mind and whole body
-Don't feel anything physically the same anymore, like my whole body is asleep
-Used to be lactose intolerant, I feel I am not anymore
-Was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as a teen. Had to take low dose SSRI's occasionally or I would feel panic and stress in my stomach. It's now been almost a year since I have regularly taken any meds, but I feel pretty much nothing.
Of course I have been to many doctors over the years, gotten my hormones checked out many times, but everything always comes back in normal range. Docs just tell me it is stress related or all in my head.
I would not have thought to check out the Marshall Protocol just based on these symptoms, but something happened about 4 months ago that changed everything.
I started taking a centrum multivitamin twice a day. I was taking it just for overall health and didn't think much about it. By the second day I took it, almost all of my side effects listed above went away like magic. I know how that sounds, but it was true. I thought that it was just my body returning to normal as it had after propecia many times.
The most noticeable physical effects were an overall feeling that my body was more alive, like it just shook off whatever haze was around it. My urine flow was noticeably faster and fuller. The soreness in my knee was gone. My sleep was deep like it hadn't been in years. I woke up and remembered what it felt like to wake up rested. And the best part is, my mind was connected to my body again. I could feel attraction to girls again. When I exercised I could feel the pain and the endorphins kicking in. And my mind was clear again. My body started to burn more fat on its own. My family noticed that I was getting thinner and more toned by the day, despite not lifting weights. I sat once after a run, and felt the heat and the wind, and just remembered that THIS was what "normal" felt like.
Unfortunately, even though I continued to take the multivitamin, the side effects slowly returned. All in all, this lasted over the course of maybe 10 days. By day 10 I was back where I started.
I researched "multivitamin" on propeciahelp, the website post finasteride syndrome sufferers post on, and I found that it is similar to what other users have experienced when supplementing Vitamin D, which is of course present in the multivitamin. However, all of the users only feel positive effects for a short while then crash back down to normal state.
I am still not sure if it was the Vitamin D, it could have been the iodine affecting the thyroid, or a doctor I spoke to felt it was the Vitamin B complex making me more energized. One user on the website pointed me to the Marshall Protocol and this website, and his theory was we are all just suffering from pathogen related illness. In fact, our periods of recovery followed by crashing sound similar to the periods of palliation the MP refers to. There are also several members that complain about sensitivity to light, and a few that don't feel well enough to work or get out of bed anymore.
All I know is that those 10 days gave me hope that there is something that can be done about this.
I will be finding an MP doctor in my area after I move this month and get insurance. Hopefully I will get a pathogen check to see if this is really what is affecting me.
If anyone has any opinions on this, please respond.
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2012 18:40 |
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I don't think the pathogen check is going to do any good. The pathogens we are trying to eradicate, are CWD (cell wall deficient) bacteria, and other microbiota, that live inside the cells and are not visible by light microscope and can not be cultured, hence they have gone unnoticed. There is beginning to be insight from the scientific community now that the DNA of these microbes can be registered. But we are a long way from an understanding by the majority of scientists of the situation.
Wish I could spend more time talking, but must go now, maybe later.
Welcome to our forums, Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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nate99
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Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2012 03:18 |
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Thanks for the response, Cynthia!
If the pathogen test won't work, I guess I just need to do a mini-probe right now, or wait until I find a doctor to do a full therapeutic probe.
Do you have any insight on whether the symptoms I have, such as the disconnect that I feel with my entire body, my knee ache, lack of deep sleep, the feeling of being sick but not getting a fever, etc. could be a mild version of chronic inflammation throughout my entire body?
Or the fact that I had complete recovery for a week by just taking a multivitamin that contained Vitamin D?
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SueBDoo
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| Joined: | Wed Mar 14th, 2012 |
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Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2012 05:39 |
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Nate--
Have you looked at any of Dr. Marshall's video conferences?
You might find some answers in the February 19, 2011 conference to your question about the variety of symptoms and the short-lived remission you experienced when you used the multi-vitamin. Here is a link to all of the available conferences.
http://marshallprotocol.com/conferences/
It is becoming more and more apparent that the intricate connection between hormone metabolite systems and the immune system (and thus inflammation) is quite complex. It seems that to unbalance one system means to unbalance the other.
Regards,
Sue
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MP: Started 08/12|Supporter of present MPers/Promoter of MP to potential Th1 sufferers|Keratoconus|Symptoms of Aging|25-D: 10.3 ng/mL July 2012|
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nate99
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Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2012 05:47 |
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Thank you Sue, I'll check it out right now
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nate99
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Posted: Fri Aug 3rd, 2012 18:48 |
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Just got the list of doctors for Los Angeles, CA where I'll be moving soon, and there is only one MP doctor there who does not take insurance.
I'd like to know about doing a Mini-Probe without the medication. How long should I give a mini-probe to decide whether it's having an effect on me? And if I don't get results from the mini-probe, how definitive is that? Should I just assume the MP is not for me?
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2012 00:38 |
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If, by the mini probe, you are referring to avoiding vit D, it is not possible to tell you ahead of time what to expect. Every one has a different starting situation. On 4 months of vit D avoidance, all my fungal issues went, or started to go, away. Some start to feel terrible and have to back track on the D avoidance. Then again, some on the full protocol feel so bad to start, that they can't tell the difference from being on the protocol, or not. And some who have plenty of IP (immuno pathology), go for a few years without seeing improvement. You just have to try and see what happens.
There is also the possibility of seeing the effects of high doses vit D, tho I have never recommended this to any one, and undoubtedly shouldn't. But it was a single high dose of vitamin D that told me that my most worrisome problem had something to do with vit D. I also had the very interesting experience, about 3 years into the MP, of deliberately allowing myself to get too much sun. Why I did it is too long a story for here, but I woke in the middle of the night curled up in a tight fetal position and feeling wonderful (one time only). Well, since one of my major problems is loss of range of motion in my hips, moving from 20% over the 3 years, to about 50%, this was a bit of a shock, and reminded me of my childhood, it had been so long since this had happened. But it certainly shows what immune suppression can do.
As far as the appropriateness of the MP for you, there is no doubt in my mind that your symptoms are salt and peppered thru our group. We always prefer that new people have already tried the usual checks, just to be sure there is no pressing acute medical problem. The MP is for chronic problems.
I wish I could help you with the doctor problem, but it is probably the biggest hurdle we MPers have to get over, worse that the olmesartan/insurance problem. At least for that, there are the Canadian suppliers of generic olmesartan at 1/6th the price for us in the US. You may need to try writing letters to every doctor you can look up, in addition to be willing to travel. I am currently between doctors myself, and may have to resort to such efforts. Prior to losing a wonderful doctor, I was driving 100 miles each way, and considering myself very fortunate.
For me, if all else fails, I will go private, it is just too important to get thru this protocol. The good part is that once you get started, you may be able to reduce the number of visits per year. We were only seeing our doctor once every 3 months. If we have to go private, we will probably push for once every 6 months. But this is easier to do if you have been on the MP a long time.
Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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nate99
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Posted: Sat Aug 4th, 2012 14:09 |
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Thank you for the response
Wow, I just wish there was some way that I knew the MP was right for me before actually starting it for so long. But it seems like there is no real way to know for sure.
No one in our little community of post finasteride syndrome sufferers has started the MP, at least not that I know of. And many have felt temporary improvements using Nystatin antifungal. One guy even said he was cured, based only on using a variety of antifungal and anti pathogen techniques. It's all so confusing and I just wish I knew what to do.
Cynthia, in your post you said that in 4 months of vitamin D avoidance, your fungal issues went away. Was that without the use of Olmesartan? And how do you know what issues are fungal issues and what are related to other pathogens?
Thank you for the guidance
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Nick B.
Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 5th, 2012 11:07 |
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nate99
Alpha has moved over the marshallprotocol site, and changed his name to "Ted Alpha". But he has only just started the MP.
Good luck on the journey. 
Nick B
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Olmecip 20mg q4h [P1:started 28 July 11] antibiotics started 14 Aug 2011. Changed to 4 hourly dosing on 31 Oct 2011. | GERD | heartburn | rhinitis | irritable bowel syndrome | running nose | latest results 25D = 9.2 ng/ml June 2012.
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Aug 6th, 2012 23:39 |
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Well, the intestinal Candida that I had for many years and had to knock down with nystatin a couple of times a years was pretty clearly fungal. Toenail fungus with a very black toe, and previous, but not long enough lasting, treatment (twice) by a dermatologist was pretty clearly fungus, and female issues over decades were pretty clearly fungus related. This is not too say that they weren't being affected by other infections, but these are very traditionally considered fungal.
These appeared to go away during the 4 months when I was trying to find a doctor, and was not taking any olmesartan. The toenail fungus by the end of the 4 months showed the black growing outward, and replaced by clear nail and some bright red bloody spots under the nail in the cuticle area.
Look at the situation this way. If you are truly very healthy, you won't even notice the effects of the olmesartan, and there will not be any problem getting off the MP when you choose to. However, the facts of the matter are that most people are carrying a pretty high load of the microbiota, much more than in by gone times, hence it is not surprising that others, not related to the MP, are of the opinion that we are having an epidemic of chronic and auto immune diseases. So, it is very likely that the MP is right for you, and that the bad reaction you had to the finasteride may be because of the microbiotic load you carry, and really need to work down.
Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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GillyB
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2012 00:55 |
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Nate, when I became interested in the MP, I couldn't find anyone who began treatment solely for my conditions, but there were hints of improvement in others who had begun for other chronic conditions. In my decision to start, I weighed that fact against this: not a single medical person had given me any hope for long term improvement with any other treatment, only holding off worse problems for a while.
I felt like I was looking at a life sentence of disability. Investing at least a year into the MP to see if I get improvement seemed like a really good plan. What do I have to lose? A year (or more) of tanning? Some seafood not eaten? I'll pay that fee gladly if I can preserve or improve my mobility on the long run.
I'm not implying that I think I'll be healed in one year. I look at one year as an honest test run for the MP in my situation. Given what I know after two months, I'm sure I will go the course, since I'm already seeing improvement and IP in places I'd never have guessed I had a problem.
GillyB
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(MP 6/8/12, degenerative disc disease ‘95, osteoarthritis ’84, neuropathy, brain fog/memory, joint/muscle pain, benign thyroid tumors, skin issues. oral vit D3 discontinued 3/2012, 25D=20, 1,25D=56 4/20/12, NoIRs 4/30/12
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nate99
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Posted: Tue Aug 14th, 2012 04:51 |
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thank you for the words of encouragement!
I still have to decide if I want to go down this route...It's a bit intimidating to say the least
i'm showing a lot of signs of lowered metabolism, not feeling hungry ever, low heartbeat, bad circulation, and I'm pretty intimidated about the blood pressure lowering effects that the meds might have on me
I'm also not sure how I would find an MP doctor in LA, as the official list did not have many at all.
Oh well, maybe I'lll give it a shot, but thanks for the encouragement
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