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Madhouse
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| Joined: | Sat May 16th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 06:01 |
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I am starting Phase III tomorrow and it happens to be my Zith day. Is it OK to pop Benicar, Mino, Zith, and now Clindy all at one time?
Is it better to space them out throughout today?
Is it more effective to take them together?
Worried about stomach trouble.
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15 Years IBS, 2 years RA.
Started MP June 16,09.
Phase III Oct 3,09.
25-D 25ng/ml.
Meds: Benicar 40mg Qid, Mino 100mg and Clindy 150mg every other day, Zith 125mg every 10 days.
Avoiding direct Sun, Using NOIRS.
Symptoms 70% resolved.
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k
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| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 218 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 11:03 |
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Yes, you are supposed to take the abx all together, at the same time. Do not take them separately. Do not space them out throughout the day.
Fine to take Benicar at the same time too as far as I know.
The above is what I have done throughout the MP (23 months)
regards, k
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CFS severe menorrhagia & dysmenorrhoea anxiety depression paxil 600mg calcium daily Ph1Oct07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Sept08 25D:Jul07=50 Oct07=23 Jan08=13.2 Oct08=12.8 Sept 09=10 NoIRs cover-up low lux home lite exp r/t to work
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Madhouse
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| Joined: | Sat May 16th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 11:22 |
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| Thanks for the quick response. Just Zithed 5min ago. I'll go back and take the rest. I was going to space them out.
____________________
15 Years IBS, 2 years RA.
Started MP June 16,09.
Phase III Oct 3,09.
25-D 25ng/ml.
Meds: Benicar 40mg Qid, Mino 100mg and Clindy 150mg every other day, Zith 125mg every 10 days.
Avoiding direct Sun, Using NOIRS.
Symptoms 70% resolved.
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Barney
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 04:24 |
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Madhouse,
Might I make a suggestion......slow down on your MP progression. Going fast is not the right way to do MP. The tortoise crossed the finish line and that is what we want to see you do.
Your signature line is great. Do you have a recent 25D test? If so, could you also post it.
Sometimes we just need reminding that it's not about winning the race, it's about just crossing that finish line. (Karna’s thoughts)
Drink plenty of water, xtra (sea) salt (regular salt is mostly chemicals) as needed, lots of rest while avoiding the sun and avoiding Vit D in your foods!!!!!
HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!!BARNEY
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Sarcoidosis diabetes asthma| loss r/kidney| hysterectomy osteoporosis| Start MP 1/1/05| My Story| ABC of MP| Bacteriality|
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Madhouse
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| Joined: | Sat May 16th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 04:55 |
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Going to get a D test next week. My herx have been very tolerable and recently non existent on Phase II so I figured I'll just keep moving along. Glad to see I started herxing again after starting Clindy. I now welcome the IP, it is like being sore after a workout, you know it's working! My RA is doing much better but no real change yet in IBS. I did not start the MP with helping IBS in mind but if it happens what a bonus! I read some members have seen improvement with IBS.
Could be the SIBO theory.
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15 Years IBS, 2 years RA.
Started MP June 16,09.
Phase III Oct 3,09.
25-D 25ng/ml.
Meds: Benicar 40mg Qid, Mino 100mg and Clindy 150mg every other day, Zith 125mg every 10 days.
Avoiding direct Sun, Using NOIRS.
Symptoms 70% resolved.
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k
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 218 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 6th, 2009 05:13 |
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That's a good reason NOT to start Phase III yet (that your herx is tolerable and in particular non-existent in Phase II) if you don't know what your 25D is yet. Your 25D should be below I think it is 12 before going into Phase III (haven't got time to check the guidelines at the minute, but I believe it is there). Otherwise you risk sudden and severe (and possibly dangerous) herx when your 25D does drop into the recommended range.
I would tend to agree with Barney that your progress appears to be on the fast side.
The MP is a "Benicar protocol" (not an abx protocol). The goal is to provoke herx and hence kill bugs, rather than ramp abx or reach the maximum dose of abx. Some people on MP are on Benicar alone, some have been on MP for years and not reached 'maximum' abx doses. But it doesn't matter because they are herxing plenty.
If you haven't got much herx yet (or in Phase II), it may well be because your 25D is still too high. It can take some time to come down.
regards, k
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CFS severe menorrhagia & dysmenorrhoea anxiety depression paxil 600mg calcium daily Ph1Oct07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Sept08 25D:Jul07=50 Oct07=23 Jan08=13.2 Oct08=12.8 Sept 09=10 NoIRs cover-up low lux home lite exp r/t to work
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Chris
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 585 |
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Posted: Wed Oct 7th, 2009 16:38 |
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I read some members have seen improvement with IBS.
That's definitely true. Other than a bit of gas from eating sugary things, I don't have IBS anymore. That's a far cry from what it was at the start of the MP.
-- Chris
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sarcoid since 1983 (or much earlier), MP since summer 2004 Chris' story
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Cynthia Schnitz
Board Staff
| Joined: | Tue Jul 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 774 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 10th, 2009 06:54 |
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| Madhouse, I hope you reduced your Mino and Zith to minimum/ starting levels when you started Clindy. I reduce my Phase II ABxs to minimum a cycle before starting Clindy just to make the transition easier. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08 Ph2 12/08 Ph3 6/09 125/25D 47/43 preMP 25D14 12/09 Calcium anomaly(gone?),Spondylitis,early Diverticulosis,early AMD,TypeII Diabetes(?) MyStory
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JoshR
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| Joined: | Mon Aug 18th, 2008 |
| Location: | NSW, Australia |
| Posts: | 445 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 05:55 |
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Just to be clear so anyone else reading this doesn't get confused: Madhouse is not following the MP guidelines as written.
Phase 1 guidelines say "Allow several weeks between increasing doses." Even assuming the bare minimum of one week on olmesartan alone and the minimal interpretation of "several" as "two", that means Phase 1 has to take at least 9 weeks.
There are 16 dosing steps in Phase 2, and if you follow the guidelines, each one takes at least 10 days. There are also two extra 10 day cycles specified near the start. That means Phase 2 takes at least 6 months.
Being in Phase 3 after 3.5 months is therefore going more than twice as fast as the guidelines allow.
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5/6 CFS criteria, 125D36 Ph1Jul08 Ph2Sep08 Ph3Feb09 25D8(Sep08) NoIRs covered up (except hands) low lux home minimal light exp r/t work
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Madhouse
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| Joined: | Sat May 16th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 10:22 |
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Yes, I am progressing more quickly than most. I kind of got hung up on the following Phase III statement:
"It is advantageous to progress to the Mino + Zith + Clindy combination as soon as possible because this is the most effective combination and their symbiotic relationship reduces the chance of CWD bacterial resistance with long-term use."
Dr Marshall states: "Mino+Zith+Clindy is the optimal antibiotic combination. Everyone should be taking it as soon as they are able to handle the Immunopathology. Mino blocks the 30S Ribosomal subunit, Clindy blocks the 50S subunit at the peptydyl transferase center and Zith blocks the protein exit route of the 50S. All three work symbiotically."
If I have little on no IP I do not see the problem. Maybe Dr. Marshall could consider a modified protocol for otherwise healthy people as opposed to the typical lifelong chronically ill who use the MP as a "last chance" effort to restore their health. I feel moving along at Josh's suggested pace would have been a waste of time for me. I feel if you are on the protocol for many years and still very ill and not progressing the protocol is not for you and not going to "Cure" your condition.
There has been some suggestion that certain CWD bacteria can be missed if the progression is too fast. This statement makes absolutely no sense to me. How can a pathogen be killed by 25mg of mino alone and otherwise flourish in a mino/zith/clindy environment.
It has also been stated by others that I am not on the MP and am following my own protocol. I will not take personal credit for my progress as it would not be fair to Dr. Marshall or all the people on the site who have helped me so much. I admit I am proceeding with the protocol at a faster than usual pace but still following it nevertheless.
If needed I can put some kind of disclaimer in my sig line stating I am progressing at a faster than usual pace which would not be appropriate for everyone. However I don't want to just discount it as it may be appropriate for some.
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15 Years IBS, 2 years RA.
Started MP June 16,09.
Phase III Oct 3,09.
25-D 25ng/ml.
Meds: Benicar 40mg Qid, Mino 100mg and Clindy 150mg every other day, Zith 125mg every 10 days.
Avoiding direct Sun, Using NOIRS.
Symptoms 70% resolved.
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ammc
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 12th, 2009 |
| Location: | Canada |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 13:47 |
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Madhouse, I am in the exact same boat as you starting 75mg mino on Monday and not a whole lot happening for me. But then again I came back from a 3 week trip to Europe and ran on my treadmill for 75 minutes the day before starting this..So I too am not as sick. I have been shorting my length of time on some mino's doses from the standard 7 doses before ramping thus far per my Doctor's advisement.
At this point I pretty much feel exactly the same as I did before I started 4 weeks ago. My tongue is better but I have no herxing at all. So I can understand your need/want to try to get too an abx level that for "you" will work. I am feeling frustrated sometimes as I can't find anyone that is in the same boat as me health wise that is on MPon these boards but your pretty close. Lucky for me I have friends who don't post here who are in the same boat as me.
I will keep plugging along at this point. But I feel your pain.. no pun intended.
Last edited on Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 13:52 by ammc
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Sicca Symptoms since Jan 2007/ 37 years old /dry eyes/mouth/foot pain in arch|work full-time/exercise daily am highly functional/ 25-D positive Ricketssia/Olemetec Q6 10/20/09 mino q48 11/1/09
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Cynthia Schnitz
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| Joined: | Tue Jul 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
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Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 01:39 |
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| Both of you report your last D level in the low twenties. Trust me, IP picks up plenty when you crosses the 12 ng/ml point. Madhouse, with you being on Max Zith, you will probably have a very bad time when that happens. I was low on IP also when I started. But when I started Zith, I deliberately pushed out the length of time between ABx increases a bit, and did what I could to encourage IP with a little exercise and very hot showers. What happened is that I thought that I had finally succeeded in stimulating IP, only to discover the increase in IP happen as I crossed the 12 ng/ml level. That point made a big difference. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08 Ph2 12/08 Ph3 6/09 125/25D 47/43 preMP 25D14 12/09 Calcium anomaly(gone?),Spondylitis,early Diverticulosis,early AMD,TypeII Diabetes(?) MyStory
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ammc
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| Joined: | Sun Apr 12th, 2009 |
| Location: | Canada |
| Posts: | 151 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 01:48 |
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My D is actually lower right now per my test results I picked up on Friday I need to update my signature as that reading is from January 12th of this year.. I quit eating eggs and fish in Feb just in case I decided to start this so it's dropped pretty good as prior that I was eating salmon almost daily. Thanks for the info Cynthia I have been watching how you do this and what happens very closely as I find your postings very informative and your level of illness or non-illness comparable. If I do 7 doses of 75mg mino and 7 doses of 100mg I will have been on Phase 1 for 8 weeks. However should I get herxing I would obviously stay on a specific dose longer.
I lost 40+ lbs between Jan and Oct so I am wondering if that might have helped with my D drop as well.
Last edited on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 02:31 by ammc
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Sicca Symptoms since Jan 2007/ 37 years old /dry eyes/mouth/foot pain in arch|work full-time/exercise daily am highly functional/ 25-D positive Ricketssia/Olemetec Q6 10/20/09 mino q48 11/1/09
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Madhouse
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| Joined: | Sat May 16th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 03:04 |
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I sure hope so, this is my last goal. My D was down to 15 and then like a lot of people went back up after 3mo's on MP.
I have a Rx for Bactrim and Deme and was going to try them next mo. My last lab tests were all normal with the exception of "low vit-D". This is an improvement over my initial labs pre MP so I guess I am on the right track. Next D level due about the beginning of the new year.
Today was a 3abx bolus and no IP whatsoever. Last dose gave me some additional pain so I guess its hit or miss. Maybe its the varying levels of D from day to day.
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15 Years IBS, 2 years RA.
Started MP June 16,09.
Phase III Oct 3,09.
25-D 25ng/ml.
Meds: Benicar 40mg Qid, Mino 100mg and Clindy 150mg every other day, Zith 125mg every 10 days.
Avoiding direct Sun, Using NOIRS.
Symptoms 70% resolved.
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